Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP
Ned Freed <NED@innosoft.com> Wed, 14 September 1994 00:44 UTC
Received: from ietf.nri.reston.va.us by IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa10307; 13 Sep 94 20:44 EDT
Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US by IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa10302; 13 Sep 94 20:44 EDT
Received: from dimacs.rutgers.edu by CNRI.Reston.VA.US id aa24337; 13 Sep 94 20:44 EDT
Received: by dimacs.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA08348; Tue, 13 Sep 94 20:18:15 EDT
Received: from THOR.INNOSOFT.COM by dimacs.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) id AA08335; Tue, 13 Sep 94 20:16:31 EDT
Received: from INNOSOFT.COM by INNOSOFT.COM (PMDF V4.3-11 #2001) id <01HH2JBJP5Z49N3X3L@INNOSOFT.COM>; Tue, 13 Sep 1994 17:10:39 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 1994 16:50:19 -0800
Sender: ietf-archive-request@IETF.CNRI.Reston.VA.US
From: Ned Freed <NED@innosoft.com>
Subject: Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP
In-Reply-To: Your message dated "Mon, 12 Sep 1994 21:58:38 -0400" <9409122158.ZM2528@stargate>
To: Mark.R.Horton@att.com
Cc: Keith Moore <moore@cs.utk.edu>, keld@dkuug.dk, John Gardiner Myers <jgm+@cmu.edu>, IETF Mail Extensions WG <ietf-822@dimacs.rutgers.edu>, IETF SMTP Extensions WG <ietf-smtp@dimacs.rutgers.edu>
Message-Id: <01HH2KP7Z4XW9N3X3L@INNOSOFT.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> It is not totally clear to me that doing Base64 encoding on binary > attachments is the right long term thing to do. I've seen criticism > of MIME (as compared to X.400) in that MIME requires such an encoding. Such criticism of MIME is entirely unjustified, since MIME does not require any encoding per se. MIME is a transport neutral protocol. If you have a binary transport you can use MIME and not have to encode anything. If you have an 8bit-capable transport you will have to encode binary objects. If you have a 7bit-capable transport you have to encoding anything that isn't 7bit text. The use of SMTP for MIME transport is what imposes the encoding requirement, not MIME itself. Moreover, a means of negotiating 8bit transport over SMTP is already defined, and work is underway in the MAILEXT Working Group to define binary transport. Once this in place the need to encode binary in MIME goes away. Given this trend towards 8bit and possibly binary SMTP transport in the future, your statements that encoding may not be the right thing to do in the long term follows directly as a corollary. However, at the present time the ability to operate over the current infrastructure is well worth the cost of encoding, in my opinion. > X.400 has its own ASN.1 encoding, but that does not involve translating > every byte of a (potentially large) binary attachment. In practice the encoding requirements of binary MIME are substantially simpler than those of ASN.1 encoding. This is especially true on the receiving end. > Are there any comparisons of performance of X.400 and SMTP/text > and SMTP/MIME/Base64 on similar hardware? Sure. I have done full implementations of both MIME and X.400, using hand-coded parsers in both cases for maximum performance. On the transmit side 7bit MIME costs more because of the need to encode every octet. On the receive side, however, the difficulties of handling all the flexibility in ASN.1 offset most if not all of the gains X.400 gets from its lighter encoding. (And this is with all the tricks in place like comparing tags values as a whole instead of breaking them down into subfields, use of proper language constructs to get optimized code, direct comparison of encoded OIDs, and so on. Without these tricks ASN.1 processing overhead can increase by a factor of 5 or more.) Complexity is another matter, however, and to my mind it is usually more important. On the transmit side MIME is trivial. No other word suffices to describe it -- the construction of 7bit MIME messages is so easy its almost embarassing. And receiving and handling 7bit MIME is harder, but still pretty simple. X.400, on the other hand, is substantially more complex, especially on the receiving side. I'd say a factor of 4 increase in complexity at a minimum, although I only needed about 2 times as many lines of code. Ned
- Re: A bad journey (an apocryphal war story) Alain FONTAINE (Postmaster - UCL)
- Re: A bad journey (an apocryphal war story) Keith Moore
- Re: Newline problem: Another stab Alain FONTAINE (Postmaster - UCL)
- Re: restrictions when defining charsets Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Dana S Emery
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Dana S Emery
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Keith Moore
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document t.l.hansen
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Keith Moore
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document t.l.hansen
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Keith Moore
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Keith Moore
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document John C Klensin
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Keith Moore
- RE: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Ned Freed
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Alain FONTAINE (Post master - UCL)
- Re: Comment on the draft MIME Part 1 document Nathaniel Borenstein
- Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment on th… Olle Jarnefors
- Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment on th… Olle Jarnefors
- re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… t.l.hansen
- re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… David Herron
- re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… t.l.hansen
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… Keith Moore
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… Keith Moore
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? (Was: Comment o… Masataka Ohta
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Non-ASCII Internet addresses? Olle Jarnefors
- Re: MIME for VM/CMS Rick Troth
- Re: MIME for VM/CMS Rick Troth
- Re: MIME for VM/CMS John C Klensin
- Re: Massive Content-Type definition ideas & Gopher Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: MTAs and Content-Transfer-Encoding conversions Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: MTAs and Content-Transfer-Encoding conversions Nathaniel Borenstein
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Masataka Ohta
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Masataka Ohta
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Masataka Ohta
- Re: Ambiguity on 8859-* and bi-directionality Keith Moore
- Re: interoperablity Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Keith Moore
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Mark.R.Horton
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Paul Rarey
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Masataka Ohta
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Rick Troth
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Keith Moore
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Ned Freed
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Masataka Ohta
- Re: 8-bit transmission in NNTP Rick Troth
- Re: New to the list... Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: interoperablity Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: interoperablity Keith Moore
- Re: interoperablity Keith Moore
- Re: interoperablity Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: interoperablity Keld J|rn Simonsen
- Re: MIME's "Content-Disposition" Header Olle Jarnefors
- Re: MIME's "Content-Disposition" Header Ned Freed
- Re: MIME's "Content-Disposition" Header Harald.T.Alvestrand
- Re: MIME's "Content-Disposition" Header Olle Jarnefors
- Re: MIME's "Content-Disposition" Header Olle Jarnefors
- Re: Content-Disposition changes Olle Jarnefors
- Andre' PIRARD