Re: [Add] [EXTERNAL] Re: questions in parliament about DoH

Hi

One point on this - is that a significant difference with DoH on child safety filters is that for users who have chosen for their own devices to turn on child safety filters, they will see them effectively turned off by a third party making the decision for them.    

That's where the legacy discussions don't entirely apply to this conversation as much of the issue has been around who is making the decision.  It's very much the question of who is choosing the filter be turned on,  and who is choosing to disable it, and in the current DoH plans that decision is being taken away from the user.

-glenn

On 5/16/19, 11:55 AM, "Add on behalf of Amelia Andersdotter" <add-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of amelia@article19.org> wrote:

    On 2019-05-16 17:17, Paul Wouters wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 May 2019, Jim Reid wrote:
    >
    >> https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2019-05-14/debates/E84CBBAE-E005-46E0-B7E5-845882DB1ED8/InternetEncryption
    >>
    >
    > That escalated quickly:
    >
    >     Does the Minister agree that there is a fundamental and very
    > concerning
    >     lack of accountability when obscure technical groups, peopled
    > largely by
    >     the employees of the big internet companies, take decisions that have
    >     major public policy implications with enormous consequences for
    > all of
    >     us and the safety of our children?
    >
    > Paul, adding "member of obscure technical group" to his LinkedIn profile.
    >
    Well, immediately preceeding that: "This Question concerns the danger
    posed to existing internet safety mechanisms by an encryption protocol
    that, if implemented, would render useless the family filters in
    millions of homes and the ability to track down illegal content by
    organisations such as the Internet Watch Foundation."

    Child safety interest groups are relatively well-funded and well-known
    for a large number of years. Observations relating to their agenda have
    been raised in HRPC recently and, of course, in a number of other forums
    over a large number of years.

    While a lot of child safety initiatives have in recent years (most
    notably the Swedish Royal Prince's Foundation at
    https://www.natforaldrar.se/#english !) been moving stronger towards
    building confidence in parents that they can be trustworthy supporters
    of children when children encounter troubling situations online, the
    momentum for ISP-oriented content control mechanisms is already in full
    steam since the 1990s. It takes a while for recommendations to be
    updated, even if better practises for parents are known nowadays.

    Together with my colleague Collin (in CC) I've been trying to work out
    whether it's possible to pre-empt increasing tensions around DoH and
    child safety filtering. In particular, we're happy to collaborate with
    interested IETF and RIPE people on this, so you can drop us an *offlist
    message* if you feel like this is something you care about.

    Thank you for your kind attention,

    Best regards,

    -- 
    Amelia Andersdotter
    Technical Consultant, Digital Programme
    Chair, RCM TIG, IEEE 802.11

    ARTICLE19
    www.article19.org

    PGP: 3D5D B6CA B852 B988 055A 6A6F FEF1 C294 B4E8 0B55

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