Re: [alto] Meeting Info for Tuesday 07/18/2023

["Y. Richard Yang" <[e-mail]>]

Hi Diego,

Always good posting from you.

As ALTO starts to be deployed in several networks, it is time to seriously
look into the security and trust management aspects of existing
ALTO-exposed information. It is better to understand and introduce
mechanisms to mitigate potential issues before widespread deployment.
Hence, a potential work item is an informational document that analyzes the
security and privacy risks of ALTO (or generally network) exposed
information about network-attached entities.

- Security and privacy impacts on endpoints
Specifically, ALTO has defined both path and entity properties. There are
path 9 metrics:
[RFC9439 to-be]: one-way delay; roundtrip delay; delay variation; loss
rate; residual bandwidth; available bandwidth; TCP throughput; hop count;
[RFC7285]: routingcost. The metrics can be exposed in numerical mode or
ordinal (ranking) mode. ALTO also has defined the entity property service
which can expose some properties of an endpoint. It helps to identify the
security and privacy impacts on involved endpoints.

Example: To be concrete, assume that there is a public, high-quality
(without security/privacy consideration) ALTO server providing ALTO metrics
for a network. An ALTO client knows the exact location of an IP address
IPa. The client queries the delay from IPa to IPb (belonging to the same
network) and finds that it has low delay, implying that IPa and IPb are
closeby; in general, one can use delay metrics to conduct triangulation.

Management: There are multiple management approaches, depending on the
context. For example,
- Should the ALTO server have a security policy for quantizing the delay
metrics?
- In many cases, ordinal (ranking) metrics reveal less information, and
hence can be preferred.
- If there is known trust relationship between the ALTO server and
application, the risk can be better analyzed and managed. Maybe there
should be an acceptable usage agreement when an ALTO server exposes
information to an ALTO client.
- There are many cases where the ALTO server is not the only information
source. For example, if an application is already running on an endpoint,
the application can conduct measurements. If some ICMP functions are
enabled, some information can be exposed anyway.
- Do we want to investigate a mechanism for an endpoint to manage its own
data (e.g., when its IP appears, or the subnet)?
- Eventually, should a network publish some type of policy such as a
differential privacy policy (
https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Overview.pdf)

The above is complementary to this paragraph for you but should be highly
related: "The expression of security properties (and trust assessment. Note
the difference) as ALTO metrics. This would require an extension to the
protocol, of a nature similar to the ones being discussed for other aspects
like energy consumption."

Complementing to endpoint security and privacy is network infrastructure
security and privacy. As we engage in the deployment of ALTO at WLCG, we
can feel that security/privacy is a concern of some network operators. But
some of these networks already publish much of their data (e.g., WLCG/CERN
has the public https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/LHCONE/WebHome). What
additional security/privacy does ALTO expose? Overall, a network should
evaluate its overall exposure and ALTO is just one piece of it. An WG item
to provide a framework and list of (recommended) sources can be highly
valuable. This should be related to your comment on provenance, and it is a
good topic to look into:
"The provenance of the data, in order to properly record the origin and
history of the data being exposed using ALTO. This includes the different
data sources aggregated by the ALTO server and the possible re-use of
stored or post-processed ALTO statements. I have submitted a proposal on
YANG provenance (
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lopez-opsawg-yang-provenance/) that
could be applicable here.

Cheers,
Richard

On Sat, Jul 22, 2023 at 8:06 AM Diego R. Lopez <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> Hi Jordi,
>
>
>
> On topic C, I’d suggest we could use as base for discussion this post I
> made to the list:
>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/c-pFeENnBa3t1HcVlgHtArT6uuE/
>
> I have seen Ayoub (or another kind editor) has added what is mentioned
> there to the root document…
>
>
>
> Be goode,
>
>
>
> --
>
> “Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno”
>
>
>
> Dr Diego R. Lopez
>
> Telefonica I+D
>
> *https://www.linkedin.com/dr2lopez/ <https://www.linkedin.com/dr2lopez/>*
>
>
>
> e-mail: [e-mail]
>
> Mobile: [phone]
> <http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B34682051091>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> On 18/7/23, 11:56, <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> This is a friendly reminder that we will have our ALTO weekly meeting today
> Tuesday, 07/18/2023, at 9:00 am EST (3:00 pm CET and
> 9:00 pm Beijing Time).
>
>
>
> Agenda:
>
> --------
>
> (Please suggest new items as necessary)
>
>
>
> - Address comments from RFC Editor on ALTO Performance Metrics drafts.
>
> - IETF 117.
>
>     - Chairs proposed this agenda:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-117-alto/
>
>     - Discussion about presentations
>
>     - Hackathon projects
>
> - ALTO Future Work:
>
>   - List of topics:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/uIFD6Dhikfu4J4PYcpJTbsiXbnE/
>
>     - Topic A:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/nSBb2fJwwEEEeZ-Xxw-OmHhJdTs/
>
>     - Topic B:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IXYPC1joF17oPJ7MWz5NDplAqKk/
>
>     - Topic C: WIP
>
>     - Topic D:
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/IEAyQ2kv49AvT1hIGfYkHWLxisY/
>
>
>
> - Material:
>
>   - Root document for topics discussion:
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit
>
>   - Root ticket for ALTO future work proposals:
> https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/FutureALTO/alto-direction-of-work.md
>
>
>
> ALTO Scrum Dashboard:
>
> ----------------------
>
> - https://github.com/orgs/ietf-wg-alto/projects/1/views/2
>
>
>
> Bridge:
>
> ---------
>
> - Join from the meeting link:
> https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m1dd555eff4634917aaff5a927d6e2c68
>
> - Join by meeting number (access code): 2424 884 8159
>
> - Meeting password: ymKtkapb394
>
>
>
> ALTO Meeting Minutes:
>
> -------------------------
>
>
> https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/meetings-ietf-alto/ietf-alto-2023.md
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jordi, on behalf of ALTO
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
-- 
 =====================================
| Y. Richard Yang <[e-mail]>   |
| Professor of Computer Science       |
| http://www.cs.yale.edu/~yry/        |
 =====================================