[alto] Minutes from the ALTO Session at IETF-93

[Jan Seedorf <[e-mail]>]

Dear all,

below are the minutes from the ALTO Session at IETF-93 last week. Thanks again to Lyle for taking notes!

Please let us (the chairs) have any comments/edits/corrections you might have.


-          Jan



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ALTO WG Meeting Notes



1520-1530 - Administrivia Chairs 10'



Interop Event

- Skype and remote / local team

- 2 client / server combo & 1 solo client & 1 solo server

- No protocol bugs but found a couple of minor implementation bugs

- First interop since approval of RFC 7285

- Proposal from Richard Yang to do this remotely at any time and we could host at any IETF meetings

- Snapshot of test was shown



Milestone Dates

- behind charter miletsone dates

- chairs to recalibrate after IETF Prague

- we have very matured proposals for the chartered items so Chairs feel comfortable about progress



draf-alto-deployments status update given

chairs to prepare



Server Side Notifications (sse)

- adopted as wg item since last IETF

- solves multiple wg charter items

- an update from Wendy has been made

- How to move on is the question?

- 2-3 slides for status is available and may be presented at the end of this meeting

- authors feel it is very mature

- no comments were made on this when asked



multi-cost draft

- IPR has been declared on this document

- if one have comments they are urged to comment on mailing list

- as long as the wg knows what they are looking at the IETF does not take a position on it but they do take issue with any lack of awareness of IPR



alternative server discovery

- one item is presented to day and we have no alternatives so we may need to move on today



Endpoint properties (2 proposals)

- both items to be discussed

- this is a charter item



Agenda Bashing? None



1530-1540 - Inter-ALTO communication problem P. Wydrych 10'

statement

draft-dulinski-alto-inter-problem-statement-02



- discussed changes - rewritten from scratch due to the age of the document

- 11 use cases reduced to 3

- general architecture was presented

- UC 1 - Remote View of Topology

- can calculate cost of sending data

- cannot calculate cost of receiving data (w/o inter-ALTO)

- UC 2 - Detailed Information on Remote Topology

- UC 3 - Partitioned Networks

- Security Issues

- Next Steps

- WG adoption?

WG chair - we will not adopt a document to adopt an item not in the chair

if wg is interested then we will proceed with document but not accept it

- Individual Comment - The problem should be solved but we need to think about the process

- Splitting this document up was done on advice of others

- A couple have

- Vijay - one way to move ahead is AD sponsored draft

- Some interest expressed by Sebastian and a others

Conclusion - We move along with agenda an discuss how to proceed on the mailing list



1540-1550 - Path extensions for the ALTO P. Wydrych 10'

protocol

draft-wydrych-alto-paths-00



- No way to ask for cost of specific path in ALTO

- Multiple Use Cases presented

- introduces ppid (path pid)

- network map and cost map was presented

- endpoint cost service shown

- Path Computation Service shown

- Question -

- W. Roome - question on the cost map representation

- L. Bertz - expressed usefulness for operators

- Individual comment - expressed other considerations that need to be made in the document

- interest in the wg and details need to be worked out - we dein

1550-1600 - Multiple ALTO information sources S. Kiesel 10'

and partitioned knowledge

draft-kiesel-alto-xdom-disc



where are we

- defined dhcp to recommend an alto server URI

- 7285

- we will not standardize the backend (database)

problem statement

- we have multiple sources

- an alto client does not always care about optimizing for itself (an on behalf of request)

- if an ALTO server knows everything would it tell us

> we need to address this problem

Options presented for info replication & request forwarding

Use algorithm based on DNS to resolve IP address to a URI

Ask - to be adopted

Technical Questions - None

2-3 have read latest version of the draft

Since only a few folks have read the latest version the question of adoption to the mailing list

Common Pietr - We need some sort of discovery service and had some discussion regarding a search engine

Wendy - notes that a registry may be useful and reverse DNS may be flaky

WG adoption cannot be taken now (due to low readership)

Jan asked Sebastian to start discussion of adoption on the mailing list



1600-1610 - Extended endpoint properties for H. Song 10'

ALTO

draft-deng-alto-p2p-ext-06



- Status

-stable

-recent issues address in 06

-targets charter wg item

- Fast Changing Data - Per Dallas, we should not use ALTO for realtime congestion control and it should be focused on data where it changes on long periods of time (more than minutes)

- Vijay via Sebastian - we talked about a way to discuss privacy concerns in Dallas (discussion taken offline)

- Authors of both documents agree the two (this and Wendy's) are orthogonal



1610-1620 - Unified and extensible approach to W. Roome 10'

ALTO properties

draft-roome-alto-unified-props-00



- some properties are service specific and some are not, e.g. CIDRs

- Endpoint inheritence is realisitc

- ALTO EP service is POST only

- Make the Property Definition independent of the domain

- Each map may have a set of network properties

- 2 new property map services to replace existing EP service

- Updates 7285

- Drop Wendy's previous proposl



- Authors agree documents do not complete because

Wendy's is a replacement of EP Service in 7285

Previous proposal defines new properties



Jan -

Notes the other proposal is in the chartered

The charter is not precise as to whether this draft is out of the charter scope



Sebastian - not a question of XOR drafts and that both drafts are useful and should be merged

Proposes p2p draft be adopted

We agree we don't want to merge them (per people in the room)

Pietr - notes that he likes both drafts

- first draft has very specific properties

- second has nice features

- Sabin - both drafts are important

- second draft reduces data to converge between the

H - uses existing ep service in his I-d draft-deng-alto-p2p-ext

Vijay - thinks more discussion is necessary

L Bertz - thinks second draft meets the reduction of over the wire reduction objective in the chartered

Conclusion - more discussion is required and the documents can be progressed



1620-1630 - ALTO map calculation from network H. Seidel 10'

data

(No internet-draft)



- Continuous update of alto network information is required

- Multiple sources of the information exists

- Compile internal network map (displayed on slide)

- Executed large map construction (800 routers) with exclusion and other filters to generate network and cost maps

- Comment - Pietr - good to see presentation where an ALTO server is processing full BGP data and receiving updates periodically

- Jan note hows that this is useful for

- Main idea of presentation is to provide information as opposed to creating a draft



1630-1640 - Multi-cost ALTO S. Randriamasy 10'

draft-ietf-alto-multi-cost



(Reduced to 5 minutes)

- Main driver is backwards compatibility with legacy clients

- Testable Cost Types discussed - can test a value on a metric w/o the need to return it

- Next Steps - this is a wg document and mature document but we need comments from the team on the mailing list



1640-1650 - ALTO cost calendar S. Randriamasy 10'

draft-randriamasy-alto-cost-calendar-04



- Overview of changes

- Main updates the service applies to all metrics and it is now backwards compatible

- Request WG adopton

- no time for discussion

- need feedback from WG on mailing list to adopt it?

- is this the right level?

- encourage others to read the draft

1650-1700 - Routing State Abstraction Service W. Roome / Y.Lee 10'

draft-gao-alto-routing-state-abstraction-00



- Wendy presenting on behalf of Richard

- Client requests the level of abstraction it wants to see from the ALTO server

- Client uses OpenFlow like list to describe what they want

- Are we interested in this approach?

- only 1 person has read it - Jan asked for folks to read it



1700-1710 - Large Data Transfer Coordinator H. Song 10'

ddraft-wang-alto-large-data-framework-00



- Due to time we deferred comments to the mailing list

1710-1720 - Spill over/Conclusion/Wrap-up Chairs/WG 10'



- General comment of encouraging WG to read each others' documents. Authors are encouraged to read each other's work.


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Prof. Dr. Jan Seedorf
Senior Researcher
NEC Europe Ltd., NEC Laboratories Europe, Network Division Kurfuerstenanlage 36, D-69115 Heidelberg Tel.     [phone]
Fax:     [phone]
e-mail:  [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
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