[alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-alto-xdom-disc-04: (with DISCUSS)
Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net> Tue, 18 December 2018 20:37 UTC
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From: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>
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Cc: draft-ietf-alto-xdom-disc@ietf.org, Jan Seedorf <jan.seedorf@hft-stuttgart.de>, alto-chairs@ietf.org, jan.seedorf@hft-stuttgart.de, alto@ietf.org
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2018 12:37:45 -0800
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Subject: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-alto-xdom-disc-04: (with DISCUSS)
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Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-alto-xdom-disc-04: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-xdom-disc/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: I have not completed my review in detail (and so it may be answered further down), but I wanted to get this in early... I'm in no way an ALTO expert (I can barely spell it), so am hoping that I'm missing something obvious, but I'm really concerned by the scaling implications / cost shifting of this. Let's say this suddenly becomes very popular -- Apple includes this in the iOS App Store / iMessage app, or Chrome / Firefox decides to start doing this to find the best datacenter to send traffic to or something... Until the huge majority of ISPs start answering with these records for all of their subnets, it seems like there could be a sizable amount of traffic hitting a: the ISPs recursive servers, b: RIRs, and possibly c: AS112 servers. E.g: The address I get when I lookup www.google.com is 216.58.193.164. These are the lookups I'd need to do (I think!) if my $application (or, more worrying, framework / browser) were to use this: wkumari$ dig +nocomment +nostats +nocmd NAPTR 164.193.58.216.in-addr.arpa ;164.193.58.216.in-addr.arpa. IN NAPTR 193.58.216.in-addr.arpa. 59 IN SOA ns1.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. 226022060 900 900 1800 60 wkumari$ dig +nocomment +nostats +nocmd NAPTR 193.58.216.in-addr.arpa ;193.58.216.in-addr.arpa. IN NAPTR 193.58.216.in-addr.arpa. 59 IN SOA ns1.google.com. dns-admin.google.com. 225983176 900 900 1800 60 wkumari$ dig +nocomment +nostats +nocmd NAPTR 58.216.in-addr.arpa ;58.216.in-addr.arpa. IN NAPTR 216.in-addr.arpa. 1539 IN SOA z.arin.net. dns-ops.arin.net. 2017026288 1800 900 691200 10800 wkumari$ dig +nocomment +nostats +nocmd NAPTR 216.in-addr.arpa ;216.in-addr.arpa. IN NAPTR 216.in-addr.arpa. 1665 IN SOA z.arin.net. dns-ops.arin.net. 2017026288 1800 900 691200 10800 This is 4 lookups per host / app / connection hitting my recursive servers. In addition 2 of them hit Google's resolvers, and 2 hit ARINs. Yes, ARIN already gets many "reverse" queries, and my recursive already does lots of lookups, but the document doesn't (that I could see) discuss the potential fallout from potentially *lots* more load. Caching is only slightly effective here -- there are many many subnets, and e.g the ARIN NoData,NoError response will be cached for 1800 seconds (30 minutes). There are other examples -- for example, my laptop is currently on 192.168.0.65. If I try connect to 192.168.1.2 using an app which implements this, I'll have 4 queries hitting my recursive server (3 of which will get NXDOMAIN) and 192.in-addr.arpa. hitting ARINs servers. I'm assuming that I must be missing something obvious here, because I cannot see how the above sounds reasonable.
- [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-alto… Warren Kumari
- Re: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Sebastian Kiesel
- Re: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Warren Kumari
- Re: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)
- Re: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Sebastian Kiesel
- Re: [alto] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)