[appsdir] Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-02.txt> (Experiences from Cross-Area Work at the IETF) to Informational RFC
Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> Fri, 15 February 2013 03:29 UTC
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Subject: [appsdir] Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-02.txt> (Experiences from Cross-Area Work at the IETF) to Informational RFC
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 FYI. I wasn't sure whether to make this an AppsDir review... - -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Last Call: <draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-02.txt> (Experiences from Cross-Area Work at the IETF) to Informational RFC Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2013 20:22:21 -0700 From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> To: jari.arkko@piuha.net CC: ietf@ietf.org Hi Jari, although I was asked to complete an AppsDir review of this document, on reading it several times I realized that my feedback is more personal and less from the Apps Area perspective, so I am sending a more general message. On 2/6/13 4:49 PM, The IESG wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to > consider the following document: - 'Experiences from Cross-Area > Work at the IETF' <draft-arkko-iesg-crossarea-02.txt> as > Informational RFC Section 3 begins: From an IETF participant's point of view, it is important that there is a working group where the technical topic that he or she is interested in can be discussed. I'm not convinced that IETF participants really care whether the institutional machinery of WG formation has been put in place. In my experience, a fair amount of interesting work has happened outside of any WG (e.g., Jeff Hodges and I worked on RFC 6125 on a special-purpose IETF mailing list, not in a WG). As long as there's some kind of venue, discussion can occur. A related note on the following sentence in Section 1: If the work is interesting, the necessary people come to the meetings and work on the specifications. Well, meetings (in the sense of WG sessions, or even IETF meetings) aren't truly necessary if there is some other appropriate venue available. IMHO, Section 2 could benefit from examples of cross-area work involving RAI and Apps. Current and recent WGs include PRECIS (with involvement from Apps, RAI, Security, and Ops/Mgt), ALTO (straddling Apps and Transport), OAUTH (straddling Apps and Security), CORE (in Apps but with close connections to 6lowpan in Int), PAWS (it was an open question whether it would end up in Apps or Ops/Mgt), and current efforts to define multi-stream support in MMUSIC, CLUE, and RTCWEB. The Apps and RAI AD can probably provide further insight here. In Section 3: Cross-area work is needed, of course, in any situation where a particular technical problem does not cleanly map to one organization. Is an IETF area truly an "organization"? Isn't the organization here the IETF? In Section 4: But it is also possible that concerns raised in one forum are not understood in another, and this can lead to an effort going forward after finding the "lowest bar" forum to take it up. By "forum" you seem to mean "IETF area". OLD Similarly, requests for cross-area review are relatively infrequent or sent only to a particular subset of people in an area (such as a directorate). NEW Similarly, requests for cross-area review are relatively infrequent or sent only to a particular subset of people in an area (such as a directorate or related working group). I tend to agree with Benoit that the scope of, and audience for, the suggestions in Section 4 are not particularly clear. Unfortunately, I do not yet have actionable suggestions for improvement. Peter -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.18 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJRHat6AAoJEOoGpJErxa2pPAMP/iHR0eoCRjbeGUvZkCmmZVNb UNs+xC8MFRhP1AaRGXas8XMgjgYp02yZryXe590CcpwCVohk/agMs9Z+hKCBDi6F 46n+p+Y6UBI1O53Vloo/BkFZTQ/q4FkwIYiCF0o9PmW10tiwhisYkIuFf3Jza5HV y3GZ6AUs1UIQYF3CFAripFPEZst+OQ8yWrzxuPkdpnMBIoaDxvBV/NsYluq5H5Xv FYfGhgBaCKViQme2E8tHsY9YC4MGCCmepXMGfmP5ZoVmwwKYZhvN3GSIuDL96m3y tUsC1lcdpkA3ZLayO339+ZFQztzncsjxp+WzV/yxY64T12qckLY+FqI/xmTxEffw JT02IzjU9dZ398UXXZcIbEUBeoa8Qyrfy1qTn6b6fga3y49M3A2QnEiggiyXvk9F WlO9YE6Pd8ns6aGZ46vPS6Gg6FJDQyquPA+gcg0koyiYxtysCRiLHO8wXlAhpxoU TpxxR0delXREUxzpZvXJG5KxoZASC6aY/01kuw849IkcoRHTrygED3U3VKslBfSi tqCnNPv4NoCcqm5mtMxFCONOs+sIVA0UQbismUxf0RYYkUReafGrb97mRGJCHn4J Vqk1rZQ2KMU/zra7yzdm417ZHjYKNYQCYk6kOd/bY3w4X09WcpHFmFctBmGPMJr+ Qo9dhaske2MFLUnrHXYb =g3pF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
- [appsdir] Fwd: Re: Last Call: <draft-arkko-iesg-c… Peter Saint-Andre