Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email address for the spammers!!
Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com> Sun, 15 June 2003 20:30 UTC
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From: Vernon Schryver <vjs@calcite.rhyolite.com>
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To: Asrg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email address for the spammers!!
References: <5.2.0.9.2.20030614225005.00bba8a0@solidmatrix.com>
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Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 08:28:41 -0600
> From: Yakov Shafranovich <research@solidmatrix.com> > ... > The program used for archiving the lists is MHonArc, which has an anti-spam > module (see http://www.mhonarc.org/MHonArc/doc/resources/spammode.html). > Perhaps the administrators can turn it on in order to make sure that > addresses are not being harvested. The IETF mail administrator can be > reached at mailadm@ietf.org (from https://www1.ietf.org/maillist.html) and > the person that handles our list is Jakob Munoz who can be reached at > jmunoz@ietf.org (from https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg). GNU > MailMan, which handles the actual mailing list, might have anti-spam > features as well. Even without have heard of experiements that show spammers are prefectly capable of writing, finding, and/or using software that can and does recover mail addresses from any such "anti-spam" feature, common sense should tell one that is likely. It is impossible to create a mechanism that leaves addresses in a form that can be used by people but that cannot be decoded by a program. (Look for the neologisms "munge" and "demunge.") Therefore you must be advocating the complete censoring of all addresses from this and presumably all IETF and IRTF mailing list archives. I suspect many people would object to that on grounds related to the notion that IETF and IRTF mailing lists are in some sense public and official. As I've said before, I think that the price of admission to this mailing list should include sufficient practical knowledge of spam and spam defenses to not need to worry about exposing one's address. Besides, anyone advocating challenge-response, authentication, or any of several other spam defenses and complains about spam as a result of address exposure here or anywhere is either admitting practical ignorance of the adovcated defense or saying that the advocated defense is useless. > Alas, for all we know that could be spammers on the list > as well who want revenge, also I highly doubt it. I don't know about "revenge," but I am convinced that certain superficial changes in some common spam in the last 60 days were prompted by discussions here. I trust you did not intend to suggest that you doubt that spammers would either subscribe to this mailing list or regularly check the archives, since that would be silly. Spammers have more interest in effective spam defenses than almost anyone else except perhaps people working for organizations that are selling or want to sell spam defenses (effective or not). ..... Concerning delays in receiving copies of mail from this or any big list: Please consider obvious aspects how any bulk mail system run by spammers, the IETF, or anyone must work. The simplest implementation is to send copies one at a time to addresses in the list. If sending each copy takes 5 seconds, then the thousandth address will receive its copy more than an hour after the first address. In practice, many transmissions will take less than a second and there will be a significant amount of parallelism, but that parallelism will be modest and there will be many slow or silent SMTP servers in the list that will make the average time/copy large. In practice, bulk mailing software will keep lists sorted. The result is quite familiar to anyone with with an address near the end of the alphabet and any experience with large mailing lists. We get our copies from the list hours and sometimes literally days after people at the front of the list and after "courtesy" copies. In addition, this mailing list may be manually moderated. Vernon Schryver vjs@rhyolite.com _______________________________________________ Asrg mailing list Asrg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/asrg
- [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email address f… Shannon Jacobs
- Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email addre… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email addre… Vernon Schryver
- Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email addre… Yakov Shafranovich
- Re: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email addre… Harald Tveit Alvestrand
- RE: [Asrg] Join ASRG and display your email addre… Peter Kay