[Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp-00-00: (with BLOCK)
Daniel Holmgren <daniel@blueskyweb.xyz> Thu, 08 January 2026 00:04 UTC
Return-Path: <daniel@blueskyweb.xyz>
X-Original-To: atp@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: atp@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8DEFA46ECFD for <atp@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:04:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: 0.399
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.499, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=1.999, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=blueskyweb.xyz
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KNHLLcH4Kljy for <atp@mail2.ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:04:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-yw1-x112b.google.com (mail-yw1-x112b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::112b]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 873E4A46ECF0 for <atp@ietf.org>; Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:04:08 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-yw1-x112b.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-78fc520433aso29767617b3.1 for <atp@ietf.org>; Wed, 07 Jan 2026 16:04:08 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=blueskyweb.xyz; s=google; t=1767830642; x=1768435442; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=xrvdoLauRhfhYtQXNvwMKUQoZrgXj71QN+2iPlKYexc=; b=YSg2jToKwJ3tN7ZiV5MzLEgDT2zyh01WMbYG4tfnlOUL+1ov1h/9fxvS8He/YH9UC7 OA8NoGQ8rLJdEvky6m4atQ3uZQG8VSU3Yhg66e23I+Whpup/a9BHKHLNWvqxHOAqxrA5 8CZXj5Isf8L8sVx4QJEEOD7j3NOu/GkCryFhgs/cdxMBsNmbdoLqTy8535glWZ8xb0HN oSFUh1kZsrqT0yTrZfwYl9eJy1d9pSta1aGDT62ARP1ZKxCYhY4h3OeZAC2H6GIVLt4t 5he/DvIUMZaTMvpDccXcTZ7LW55IWyBT/Nh8PO56gtWAIXROGajOBekLAuBB1qKZmRug SM5A==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1767830642; x=1768435442; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=xrvdoLauRhfhYtQXNvwMKUQoZrgXj71QN+2iPlKYexc=; b=aiAqwn3mU8ZTzZo9X2Zj0CV/2vGML5UfF9Yy6f6l6JQu2dtyb666fdzsS9ZWRbHQKg cnaNX+Nekqzl5bo+ejkzcD3Jub4vTHf+Y6eN9QTSox0WIggwtzDL5AYAd5t8VDToY22N sx4ZHK1WTg0QT9CJcIf0dDmFK/4lzdcqxjBc3gOdQ/IfQWUlu+YfIhlD1/zwTNdsFKOQ 4xO/wiBB5U52Q/ptZ12qI8OidusHhYa6WL6Zuwkm5b1xZW82uWjjo597gqEIX/2yAzwy zBv3yCl8+6Rzc8f50V7bc3eVkI00MX+T/7qVTGkgXHXkz8wJ6iaGVqEFKftCDU9S8/Z8 lOqA==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCW0JgTDot4bY6EPbXacr3M5xpnJptdngXY+ecWC0tWMlrrCM4bd36KCv33Dmf4bbTwMr1I=@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YwxUREEZVPBPWB71rYzgiaOj+jF3U2ZXNDiJlRNg6UzZEjgjtWm M+nPwP6HrBF4DsdN3RpH3OiEMweySXoDiqN3sLoqRO5WIDSzI2YHh9ufWMGQ8TnlxM/oNUQ/EXU PZZPzFajl9KTGw1RPzeDkEIxfEHT/6yBah0pjaVu7f5nzE41r4nuRCDY=
X-Gm-Gg: AY/fxX41GJ7+Vvb6PIEzOyOm61taoEObvG0GlGGHSHJJK+JjyIZILSZWzyNmthG6YLU VHGkapsl89lWzeeo7X5YreP1rYs/zeWS0QOJlteq/F5FYGsvHbErAAyKbbbtM7eJT2Z98xG65ao BUjfwtNc1Pr48y0B7EBhLTkyV+dJa4ijL7KLrJ+0vsF82wR9CzSYdKaiZQIvbf3pFBIhmpWqUSX 71n5QLPP0SLiXhVGPRzndMZHZRj9YmHqph8O/rq/9J1x8gQz0EX3Qshdnmol5TIb7uEi+aKKYRR l7FJp7Zk35Cxbt6SeTC2WRhggeHAZ4flDpFANBaqND2KeQZtNPjRQg==
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGi6P4Jmu3w8FyNvF61iSI2zxWDmeIZBA1O+qWMdPv9hXKQ3X3LiXDw3nAbh/RWPaWm7Mu4RZWjaZQZ1caxFSM=
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:fc8:b0:790:4bcc:764f with SMTP id 00721157ae682-790b5828109mr42544867b3.55.1767830642341; Wed, 07 Jan 2026 16:04:02 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <176780425842.3788976.6908494635852652869@dt-datatracker-5656579b89-p6k4r> <CAGZK71mR7TzUrN8pUs31aotc1Bds+Ftqe65A7ZcoG83CFwFSKw@mail.gmail.com> <5117630a-51e0-4399-b746-576ef94a0d5c@hxr.us>
In-Reply-To: <5117630a-51e0-4399-b746-576ef94a0d5c@hxr.us>
From: Daniel Holmgren <daniel@blueskyweb.xyz>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2026 18:03:50 -0600
X-Gm-Features: AQt7F2ps6nsiOk0WYIkliCqVENyP-TtL07MhhfGe9O0QuKCZ84NtQ3FGJKf4uqg
Message-ID: <CAGZK71mypPhJR_1j9KSsQeuqeSdPPL0aiEabHAnDw15fB=BpLQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Andy Newton <andy@hxr.us>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000075c7e60647d52519"
Message-ID-Hash: R5MR6HFDVJQMXF54JE3GLJ4MDCRZ4LNS
X-Message-ID-Hash: R5MR6HFDVJQMXF54JE3GLJ4MDCRZ4LNS
X-MailFrom: daniel@blueskyweb.xyz
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, atp-chairs@ietf.org, atp@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp-00-00: (with BLOCK)
List-Id: Authenticated Transfer <atp.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/atp/HsSedTGvxcdP_IMSAm8bmAkbYvI>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/atp>
List-Help: <mailto:atp-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:atp-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:atp@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:atp-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:atp-leave@ietf.org>
How does this sound? I'll make the suggestion on the GitHub PR as well. "All existing work must undergo a consensus process. Proposed changes to the existing approach must be weighed against their impact on deployed implementations." On Wed, Jan 7, 2026 at 2:39 PM Andy Newton <andy@hxr.us> wrote: > > > On 1/7/26 2:53 PM, Daniel Holmgren wrote: > > Hi Andy, > > > > Thank you for the prompt feedback. > > > > ## Item 1 > > The intent is not to say "non-breaking", we're comfortable with breaking > changes where justified. The goal with "gratuitous" is to respect the > participants in the currently deployed network and to serve as a guardrail > against major architectural reworkings and preferential/arbitrary changes, > while still preserving the ability to make substantive and justified > changes. > > > > We lifted the language from the JMAP charter ( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-jmap/01/ < > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-jmap/01/>) and figured > the word was understood within the IETF context. If "gratuitous" is too > subjective, are there any common ways to signal a similar sentiment? > > It probably shouldn't have been in the JMAP charter either. > > My suggestion is that you either remove the clause or be more specific > about what you want. Some of the words you have used above are better, IMHO. > > > > > ## Item 2 > > This may have been the result of a formatting error on our part which > Orie recently fixed ( > https://github.com/ietf-artarea/charters/blob/67c6036f8205a6ec02da5cd2999bd0638635fdc0/atp/charter.md > < > https://github.com/ietf-artarea/charters/blob/67c6036f8205a6ec02da5cd2999bd0638635fdc0/atp/charter.md > >). > > > > How is this wording? > > "Document(s) describing interface requirements and selection criteria > for account identifier resolution systems, and defining a public registry > and update process for recommending specific account identifier resolution > systems" > > Much better. > > -andy, ART AD >
- [Atp] Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp-00-… Andy Newton via Datatracker
- [Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp… Daniel Holmgren
- [Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp… Andy Newton
- [Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp… Daniel Holmgren
- [Atp] Re: Andy Newton's Block on charter-ietf-atp… Andy Newton