Re: [auth48] AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9377 <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-flood-reflection-12> for your review

[Antoni Przygienda <[e-mail]>]

  1.  Keywords: scalability
  2.  Yes, please
  3.  Terminology is good
  4.  Ok, as long it’s consistent across the document
  5.  Massaged

      Traditional IS-IS architecture prescribes a routing domain with two
      "levels" where a single L2 area functions as the "backbone" that connects
      multiple L1 areas amongst themselves for scaling and reliability purposes.
      In such architecture, L2 can be used as transit for traffic carried from one L1 area to another, but
      L1 areas themselves cannot be used for that purpose because the L2 level must
      be a single "connected" entity, and all traffic exiting an L1 area flows along L2 routers until the
      traffic arrives at the destination L1 area itself.


  1.  Please change per suggestion
  2.  Ditto
  3.  Yes, please change per suggestion
  4.  Ditto
  5.  Ditto
  6.  Please do not remove, the sentence applies each to a different mechanism described in the according paragraph. Even they are verbatimely same.
  7.  Please change per suggestion
  8.  Remove CAPS on all occurences of “RESERVED”
  9.  Quickly did after reading NIST. I don’t see any terms that are not inclusive though of course anything can be argued to be non-inclusive in the ever expanding list of political correctness. So,  unless I’m pointed to specific terms that insult I am at a loss what to look for further.

As to “traditional”, here are suggestions to make it (more) readable for <insert here politically correct term for genus homo individuals> not skilled in ISIS previous art.

“This arrangement gives the L2 topology significantly better scaling properties than traditionally used flat designs.”

Could be replaced with “prevalently” ?

“Traditional ISIS concepts whereas a routing domain has two "levels" with a single L2 area being the "backbone" that connects multiple L1 areas for scaling and reliability purposes.”

Traditional can be removed

“In traditional ISIS L2 can be used as transit for L1-L1 traffic but L1”
“The traditional approach to increasing the scale of an IS-IS deployment is to break it up into multiple L1 flooding domains and a single L2 backbone”

Can be replaced with “standard”. To avoid confusing the skilled reader following reference must be used when “standard” is meant

   [ISO10589] ISO, "Intermediate System to Intermediate System Intra-
              Domain Routing Exchange Protocol for use in Conjunction
              with the Protocol for Providing the Connectionless-mode
              Network Service (ISO 8473)", ISO/IEC 10589:2002, November
              2002.


“Unmodified (traditional) L2 routers”
“(those having traditional L2 adjacencies)”
“client will have both traditional L2 adjacencies and flood reflector L2 adjacencies.”
“A flood reflector MUST NOT form any traditional L2 adjacencies.”
“flood reflector MUST NOT form any traditional L2 adjacencies.”
“When two flood reflector clients form a traditional L2 adjacency the Cluster IDs are disregarded.”
“

Same


Thanks for the thorough read through and good suggestions


  *   Tony


From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Date: Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 08:56
To: Antoni Przygienda <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>, John Scudder <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9377 <draft-ietf-lsr-isis-flood-reflection-12> for your review
[External Email. Be cautious of content]


Authors,

While reviewing this document during AUTH48, please resolve the following
questions, which are also in the XML file.

1) <!-- [rfced] Please insert any keywords (beyond those that appear in the
title) for use on https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/search__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CTtw8b8jojiV7V4XbM1zBz88j4hp9-_E-Dy6iHRNVkEuVQP7EFJK7f12aL1hMJCqBCkc24Mk18PytVj6qNPYpg$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.rfc-editor.org/search__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CTtw8b8jojiV7V4XbM1zBz88j4hp9-_E-Dy6iHRNVkEuVQP7EFJK7f12aL1hMJCqBCkc24Mk18PytVj6qNPYpg$> .
-->


2) <!-- [rfced] May we update this sentence as follows for correctness?
The changes are to
- move the phrase "that use the entire forwarding capacity
of the L1 areas" so that it modifies "networks"
- change "introducing" to "introduces" for consistent verb tense

Original:
   It allows networks to be built that use
   the entire forwarding capacity of the L1 areas, while at the same
   time introducing control plane scaling benefits provided by L2 flood
   reflectors.

Perhaps:
   It allows networks that use
   the entire forwarding capacity of the L1 areas to be built, while
   at the same time it introduces control plane scaling benefits that
   are provided by L2 flood reflectors.
-->


3) <!-- [rfced] Since a glossary is an alphabetized list of terms,
may we alphabetize the terms in the "Glossary"? Or would you prefer to
change "Glossary" to "Terminology" and leave the terms in
their current order?
-->


4) <!-- [rfced] FYI, to match past RFCs, we updated "IS-IS Level-1" and "IS-IS
Level-2" to "IS-IS Level 1" and "IS-IS Level 2", respectively.

Original:
   ISIS Level-1 and Level-2 areas, mostly abbreviated as L1 and L2:
      Traditional ISIS concepts whereas a routing domain has two
      "levels" with a single L2 area being the "backbone" that connects
      multiple L1 areas for scaling and reliability purposes.

Current:
   IS-IS Level 1 and Level 2 areas (mostly abbreviated as L1 and L2):
      Traditional IS-IS concepts whereas a routing domain has two
      "levels" with a single L2 area being the "backbone" that connects
      multiple L1 areas for scaling and reliability purposes.
-->


5) <!-- [rfced] We had trouble parsing these two sentences and understanding
what "it" refers to at the end of the second sentence. For clarity, may
we update the sentence as follows or otherwise?

Also, please clarify "L1-L1". Should "L1-L1" be written "L1->L1"
to use notation similar to within this document for "L2->L1"?

Original:
      Traditional ISIS concepts whereas a routing domain has two
      "levels" with a single L2 area being the "backbone" that connects
      multiple L1 areas for scaling and reliability purposes. In
      traditional ISIS L2 can be used as transit for L1-L1 traffic but
      L1 areas cannot be used for that purpose since L2 level must be
      "connected" and all traffic flows along L2 routers until it
      arrives at the destination L1 area.

Perhaps:
      Traditional IS-IS concepts where a routing domain has two
      "levels" with a single L2 area being the "backbone" that connects
      multiple L1 areas for scaling and reliability purposes.  In
      traditional ISIS, L2 can be used as transit for L1-L1 traffic, but
      L1 areas cannot be used for that purpose because the L2 level must
      be "connected", and all traffic flows along L2 routers until the
      traffic arrives at the destination L1 area.
-->


6) <!-- [rfced] The comma in this sentence breaks apart the objects of the
verb. We suggest replacing ", and" with "and to build". Please let us
know if you prefer otherwise.

Original:
   Flood Reflector Client:
      Node configured to build Flood Reflector Adjacencies to Flood
      Reflectors, and normal adjacencies to other clients and L2 nodes
      not participating in flood reflection.

Perhaps:
   Flood Reflector Client:
      Node configured to build Flood Reflector Adjacencies to Flood
      Reflectors and to build normal adjacencies to other clients and
      L2 nodes not participating in flood reflection.
-->


7) <!-- [rfced] Does "this" refer to "a flood reflection mechanism"
mentioned in the preceding paragraph?

Original:
   First, this allows multi-area IS-IS deployments to scale without any
   major modifications in the IS-IS implementation on most of the nodes
   deployed in the network.

Suggested:
   First, a flood reflection mechanism allows multi-area IS-IS deployments
   to scale without any major modifications in the IS-IS implementation on
   most of the nodes deployed in the network.
-->


8) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify this sentence. Is "L2 computation"
the subject of "can lead"?

Original:
   The L2
   computation determines the egress L1/L2 and with that can create
   illusions of ECMP where there is none, and in certain scenarios lead
   to an L1/L2 egress which is not globally optimal.

Perhaps:
   The L2
   computation determines the egress L1/L2 and, with that, can create
   illusions of ECMP where there is none; and in certain scenarios,
   the L2 computation can lead to an L1/L2 egress that is not globally
   optimal.

-->


9) <!-- [rfced] This sentence in Section 4.2 and 4.4 seems to be pointing to
Section 4.1. Would you like these two instances to mention the section number?

Original:
   Flood Reflection Cluster ID:  The Flood Reflection Cluster Identifier
      is the same as that defined in the Flood Reflection TLV and obeys
      the same rules.

Perhaps:
   Flood Reflection Cluster ID:  The Flood Reflection Cluster Identifier
      is the same as that defined in the Flood Reflection TLV in Section
      4.1 and obeys the same rules.
-->

10) <!-- [rfced] Please clarify this sentence, particularly "and in the
following hop the L2 egress to which it has a forwarding tunnel."
May we update to the following? Or is there another way we can update for
clarity?

Original:
   Due
   to the rules in Section 4.6 the computation in the resulting topology
   is relatively simple, the L2 SPF from a flood reflector client is
   guaranteed to reach the Flood Reflector within a single hop, and in
   the following hop the L2 egress to which it has a forwarding tunnel.

Perhaps:
   Due
   to the rules in Section 4.6, the computation in the resulting topology
   is relatively simple: the L2 SPF from a flood reflector client is
   guaranteed to reach the Flood Reflector within a single hop, and in
   the following hop, it is guaranteed to reach the L2 egress to which
   it has a forwarding tunnel.
-->


11) <!--[rfced] FYI, this sentence appears at the end of the 1st paragraph
and was repeated at the end of the 2nd paragraph of the Security Considerations,
so the second instance has been removed. Please let us know if you prefer otherwise.

   Since the available security procedures will vary by
   deployment and tunnel type, the details of securing tunnels are
   beyond the scope of this document.
-->


12) <!--[rfced] May this be rephrased for clarity? In particular, the phrase
"in case a tunnel is compromised if the tunnel itself does not provide..."
reads oddly; may we change "if" to "and" as shown below?

Original:
   Additionally, the usual IS-IS security mechanisms [RFC5304] SHOULD be
   deployed to prevent misrepresentation of routing information by an
   attacker in case a tunnel is compromised if the tunnel itself does
   not provide mechanisms strong enough guaranteeing the integrity of
   the messages exchanged.

Perhaps:
   Additionally, the usual IS-IS security mechanisms [RFC5304] SHOULD be
   deployed to prevent misrepresentation of routing information by an
   attacker in case a tunnel is compromised and the tunnel itself does
   not provide mechanisms strong enough to guarantee the integrity of
   the messages exchanged.
-->


13) <!-- [rfced] Terminology:

a) This term is capitalized inconsistently. Please review and let us
know if/how they may be made consistent.

Reserved vs. RESERVED


b) Please clarify "non-FR"; does it refer to "non flood reflection"?
May it be explained as follows, or otherwise?

Original:
   In certain cases where reflectors are attached to same broadcast
   medium, and where some other L2 router, which is neither a flood
   reflector nor a flood reflector client (a "non-FR router") attaches ...

Perhaps:
   In certain cases where reflectors are attached to same broadcast
   medium, and where some other L2 router that is neither a flood
   reflector nor a flood reflector client (a "non-FR router", where
   "FR" stands for flood reflection) attaches ...

c) Please review usage of LSPDU vs. LSP.
It seems this document uses both to refer to "Link State PDU".
For consistency, would you like to update all instances of LSPDU to LSP,
or vice versa?
-->


14) <!-- [rfced] Please review the "Inclusive Language" portion of the online
Style Guide <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-editor.org/styleguide/part2/*inclusive_language__;Iw!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CTtw8b8jojiV7V4XbM1zBz88j4hp9-_E-Dy6iHRNVkEuVQP7EFJK7f12aL1hMJCqBCkc24Mk18PytVg5iF7yYw$ >
and let us know if any changes are needed.

In addition, please consider whether "tradition", "traditional", and
"traditionally" should be updated for clarity.  While the NIST website
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nist.gov/nist-research-library/nist-technical-series-publications-author-instructio*5C__;JQ!!NEt6yMaO-gk!CTtw8b8jojiV7V4XbM1zBz88j4hp9-_E-Dy6iHRNVkEuVQP7EFJK7f12aL1hMJCqBCkc24Mk18PytVjkoQ-5hA$
ns#table1>
indicates that this term is potentially biased, it is also ambiguous.
"Tradition" is a subjective term, as it is not the same for everyone.
-->


Thank you.

RFC Editor/st/ar



On Mar 6, 2023, at 11:51 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

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RFC9377 (draft-ietf-lsr-isis-flood-reflection-12)

Title            : IS-IS Flood Reflection
Author(s)        : T. Przygienda, Ed., C. Bowers, Y. Lee, A. Sharma, R. White
WG Chair(s)      : Acee Lindem, Christian Hopps
Area Director(s) : Alvaro Retana, John Scudder, Andrew Alston




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