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Re: [AVT] Working Group LastCall: draft-ietf-avt-app-rtp-keepalive-03.txt

"Dan Wing" <dwing@cisco.com> Tue, 03 June 2008 21:29 UTC

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From: Dan Wing <dwing@cisco.com>
To: 'Colin Perkins' <csp@csperkins.org>, 'Hadriel Kaplan' <HKaplan@acmepacket.com>
References: <480F8629.8080202@rogers.com> <E6C2E8958BA59A4FB960963D475F7AC30BD05E899F@mail.acmepacket.com> <097c01c8a73b$efe6f9a0$c2f0200a@cisco.com> <E6C2E8958BA59A4FB960963D475F7AC30BD05E8BAB@mail.acmepacket.com> <40799673-8425-476F-ABA4-2FC49297BFF2@csperkins.org> <E6C2E8958BA59A4FB960963D475F7AC30BD05E8C50@mail.acmepacket.com> <EC9C8BE7-3EB8-4D32-9300-B9BEC254F940@csperkins.org>
Date: Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:29:14 -0700
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Cc: 'Cullen Jennings' <fluffy@cisco.com>, 'MARJOU Xavier RD-MAPS-LAN' <xavier.marjou@orange-ftgroup.com>, behave@ietf.org, 'Tom Taylor' <tom.taylor@rogers.com>, 'IETF AVT WG' <avt@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [AVT] Working Group LastCall: draft-ietf-avt-app-rtp-keepalive-03.txt
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Colin Perkins [mailto:csp@csperkins.org] 
> Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:27 AM
> To: Hadriel Kaplan
> Cc: Cullen Jennings; behave@ietf.org WG; Dan Wing; Tom 
> Taylor; IETF AVT WG; MARJOU Xavier RD-MAPS-LAN
> Subject: Re: [AVT] Working Group LastCall: 
> draft-ietf-avt-app-rtp-keepalive-03.txt
> 
> On 26 Apr 2008, at 17:11, Hadriel Kaplan wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Colin Perkins [mailto:csp@csperkins.org]
> >>
> >> Static payload types were deprecated over a decade ago. 
> Negotiating a
> >> no-op payload type in SDP makes sense, but I really don't want to
> >> revisit static assignments.
> >
> > Yeah, I knew you'd say that. :)
> > I'd be happy if there were at least some SDP indication.  Even if  
> > the sender ignores the lack of it in received SDP and sends empty  
> > RTP anyway, it would be useful to have it indicate support for it  
> > and its PT in the SDP it sends.
> 
> Sure, I have no argument with that.
> 
> >>> I find it odd that a WG BCP would recommend a mechanism (albeit a
> >>> fallback one), that is not itself defined in a standards track doc
> >>> anywhere.  Maybe it's just me though. :)
> >>
> >> There were also concerns about having IPR on a no-op format, if I
> >> remember correctly. https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/854/
> >
> > I thought that was Cisco's classic defensive patent statement,  
> > which other IETF RFC's have been OK with.  And I'm suggesting a  
> > different form of no-op: an empty one.  Regardless, if an 
> > empty RTP is covered by that IPR, then so is this keepalive 
> > draft, no?
> 
> Possibly - you'd have to ask Cisco.

I checked with our in-house attorneys about our IPR declaration
against draft-ietf-avt-app-rtp-keepalive, and we would keep that
same IPR declaration even with an empty RTP no-op.  The IPR 
declaration allows use of any of our patents necessary to
implement no-op, so long as no-op becomes a standard.

I hope that helps clarify things,
-d

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