Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> Tue, 29 October 2019 15:20 UTC
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From: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
To: "james.sandford@bbc.co.uk" <james.sandford@bbc.co.uk>, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "avtcore-chairs@ietf.org" <avtcore-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org>, "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2019 15:20:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi, RTP is way to much a framework, that the different usages normally have to specify what mechanisms is actually to be used. That is true both for security as well as for repair / redundancy mechanisms. I don't see this payload format having that specific requirement that it actually makes sense to lock down to a single solution for all usages. Cheers Magnus On Tue, 2019-10-29 at 14:57 +0000, Christer Holmberg wrote: > Hi, > > I see that you have now added text on protection of packet loss. But, you just > list a number of different mechanisms, without mandating (or even > recommending) one of them - you just say that implementations must support *A* > mechanism. But, that is most likely going to cause interoperability problems, > if different implementations support different mechanisms. > > Regards, > > Christer > > From: avt <avt-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of James Sandford < > james.sandford@bbc.co.uk> > Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2019 4:24 PM > To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; iesg@ietf.org < > iesg@ietf.org> > Cc: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org <avtcore-chairs@ietf.org>; > draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org <draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org>; > avt@ietf.org <avt@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp- > ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Changes have been submitted in -05. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml/ > > Regards, > James > > ========== > James Sandford > R&D Project Engineer > > BBC Research and Development > 5th Floor > Dock House > MediaCityUK > Salford > M50 2LH > > Tel: 030304 (09549) > Web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd > > ________________________________________ > From: Magnus Westerlund [magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] > Sent: 29 October 2019 14:13 > To: James Sandford; iesg@ietf.org > Cc: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org; > avt@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload-rtp- > ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > Hi James, > > Looks good to me. > > Thanks, > > Magnus > > > On Tue, 2019-10-29 at 13:52 +0000, James Sandford wrote: > > Thank you for your further comments. > > > > I will make the suggested changes to Section 8 and Section 11.1. > > > > With regards to further clarifying the fragmentation of documents, I propose > > the following: > > > > Section 6 OLD: > > If a TTML document is assessed to be invalid then it MUST be discarded. > When > > processing a valid document, the following requirements apply. > > > > Section 6 NEW: > > If a TTML document is assessed to be invalid then it MUST be discarded. > This > > includes empty documents, i.e. those of zero length. When processing a valid > > document, the following requirements apply. > > > > Section 8 ADDITIONAL PARAGRAPH: > > As described in Section 6, only zero or one TTML document may be active at > > any point in time. As such, there MUST only be one document transmitted for > a > > given RTP Timestamp. Furthermore, as stated in Section 4.1, the Marker Bit > > MUST be set for a packet containing the last fragment of a document. A > packet > > following one where the Marker Bit is set contains the first fragment of a > new > > document. The first fragment might also be the last. > > > > > > Regards, > > James > > > > > > ========== > > James Sandford > > R&D Project Engineer > > > > BBC Research and Development > > 5th Floor > > Dock House > > MediaCityUK > > Salford > > M50 2LH > > > > Tel: 030304 (09549) > > Web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: Magnus Westerlund [magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] > > Sent: 29 October 2019 11:47 > > To: James Sandford; iesg@ietf.org > > Cc: avtcore-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ttml@ietf.org; > > avt@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ietf-payload- > rtp- > > ttml-03: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Hi James, > > > > Thanks for the many updates in -04. However, I think there are a couple of > > adjustments still needed. > > > > Section 8: > > > > When a document spans more than one RTP packet, the entire document > > is obtained by concatenating User Data Words from each contributing > > packet in ascending order of Sequence Number. > > > > I think this can be further clarified by adding "consecutive" > > > > When a document spans more than one RTP packet, the entire document > > is obtained by concatenating User Data Words from each consecutive > > contributing > > packet in ascending order of Sequence Number. > > > > What I think is unclear is what is considered contributing packets. It is > > quite common that one determine fragments based on timestamp and that may be > > assumed by some. I don't know if that is a dangerous assumption here. To my > > understanding one can determine the set of fragments by looking at the > > marker bit for the packets. From first 0 after a 1, until and including the > > packet with a m=1. If that is your intention for how one should do it, so > > that it works for multiple documents to share epoch and thus RTP timestamp > > documents I think this needs to be made explicit. > > > > In section 11.1 it says: > > > > In these situations, it is RECOMMENDED that streams use > > the same Synchronization Source and Clock Rate as the related media. > > > > You do need to insert "Time" before Synchronization source to not be > > misinterpret to mean SSRC. Or maybe better is to say "clock source". > > > > Cheers > > > > Magnus Westerlund > -- > Cheers > > Magnus Westerlund > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Networks, Ericsson Research > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt -- Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Networks, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------
- [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draft-ie… Magnus Westerlund via Datatracker
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… Christer Holmberg
- Re: [AVTCORE] Magnus Westerlund's Discuss on draf… James Sandford