Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-destination media synchronization
Stephen Casner <casner@acm.org> Mon, 18 April 2011 19:38 UTC
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Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:38:13 -0700
From: Stephen Casner <casner@acm.org>
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>
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Cc: "Schooler, Eve M" <eve.m.schooler@intel.com>, IETF AVTCore WG <avt@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-destination media synchronization
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At the 29th IETF in Seattle in 1994, Julio Escobar gave a presentation about the Flow Synchronization Protocol developed along with Craig Partridge and Debra Deutsch at BBN. This protocol was designed to support multiple synchronization goals including inter-destination media playout synchronization. The proceedings from that meeting say this: At the end of the second session, there were two additional presentations. Julio Escobar gave a report on the use of RTP to support the Synchronization Protocol developed at BBN. The only requirement not satisfied by RTP was the need to communicate the calculated synchronization delays among the destination processors; this could be added to the control packet as application-specific data. This was during the period when RTPv2 was being designed, so the important question was whether the base RTP protocol needed any additions. As the paragraph states, the conclusion was that all that was needed was some information in RTCP. As I recall, the decision at that time was not to define any specific RTCP packet types yet, but to just use the APP packet for experiments. Note that the Flow Synchronization Protocol also included messages of its own that would be used in conjunction with something more like a session establishment protocol. This protocol was used for a demonstration at the ACM Multimedia conference in October, 1994 of a distributed music trio. From the proceedings: This demonstration will show the ability to display (play out) a music orchestra at the conference site by remotely synchronizing the audio and video from musicians across the country. It will serve to demonstrate the current capabilities of multi-media synchronization. The demonstration will synchronize across the continental USA two live players and one repeater site, this delivering a synchronized music trio performance the the demo site in spite of delay variations through the internetworks that carry the aduio and video flows. The demonstration will also include Graphical User Interface displays of the measured and managed delays in the system to show in real-time the way in which the synchronization protocol operates. The audience will be able to experience the difference between synchronized and unsynchronized music performances. For this demonstration, the synchronization goal was different from synchronizing playout at multiple sites at the same time. Instead, it was to synchronize the mixing of multiple sound sources that were created at multiple sites at the same "logical" time. In this case, the piano part of a Haydn trio was pre-recorded and served as the conductor or metronome. It was originated from one network site and sent to three other sites where two live performers (Eve Schooler and Martha Steenstrup) listened to the piano part and played along the violin and cello parts that were transmitted in new streams, while the third site repeated (forwarded) the piano part. Then listeners in multiple other sites received the three streams and played them in sync. Playout could have been sychronized to be at the same time as well, but that goal was unnecessary for this demonstration. I apologize that I do not remember the details of the implementation that we did with RTP for this demo. Perhaps Eve remembers. I might be able to find something in old email if it turns out to be useful. I urge those who are interested in this synchronization work to take a look at the BBN Flow Synchronization Protocol, if you have not already done so, and to consider a more general set of synchronization goals. I found these references: A paper in IEEE/ACM Transactions on Networking from April, 1994, in the ACM Digital Library: http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=187042 An earlier paper from March, 1991 that is freely available: ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/nets/docs/distributed-systems/msfs.ps.Z Another free paper, undated but later than February 1992 based on a reference date: ftp://cs.ucl.ac.uk/mice/misc_papers/flow_sync_control.ps.gz A slide presentation by Eve Schooler from the Network Music Festival in Septemper 1993 that reported on an earlier demo of the same scenario for our funding sponsors is here: ftp://ftp.isi.edu//pub/hpcc-papers/mmc/NetMusicFest.ps Ghostscript barfed on that, but the Mac was able to translate to PDF, so I put it here: ftp://ftp.packetdesign.com/outgoing/casner/NetMusicFest.pdf -- Steve On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Magnus Westerlund wrote: > WG, > > At the WG meeting in Prague we had a show of hands if we should create a > WG work item for RTCP for inter-destination media synchronization. Along > the lines described by > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-brandenburg-avtcore-rtcp-for-idms/. > > There where 5 persons in the room indicating interest. We now would like > to judge the interest on the mailing list for a new WG item. Please > indicate your support and willingness to contribute. If you think it > shouldn't be done please voice that opinion also. > > This call runs for 2 weeks until Wednesday the 4th of May. > > Regards > > Magnus Westerlund > > AVTCore chair > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Multimedia Technologies, Ericsson Research EAB/TVM > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 > F?r?gatan 6 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 > SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden| mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance > avt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt >
- [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-dest… Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Peter Musgrave
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Stephen Casner
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Rachel Huang(yihong)
- [AVTCORE] FW: Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… pieter.veenstra
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Roy Yue(PeiYu)
- [AVTCORE] FW: Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Christopher Köhnen
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Xavier Marjou
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Schooler, Eve M
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Kevin Gross
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Brandenburg, R. (Ray) van
- Re: [AVTCORE] Call for WG item on RTCP for inter-… Magnus Westerlund