Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC 5761?
"Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com> Thu, 12 September 2013 16:17 UTC
Return-Path: <mzanaty@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: avt@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CBEE21F9DA0 for <avt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:17:58 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -10.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xCqgY4ZsXB7d for <avt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:17:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C7521E8123 for <avt@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 09:17:17 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7990; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1379002637; x=1380212237; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=KXg2Rgw2IH3Llwb6ALvwYZWcqMA1OvjzPZBelSko9/4=; b=WCLGxGvNYK7MV5IBEEDZ/59hmBIhUZVmilAiPSzi9FM3n5nkIX9V23TR I35VQe3Ey5V1YTOtR0P3kg3ykWiGWJEaa66YMDqaLeSwTiEiS6VXjpZcM kJjcR+xy/+cTo+ngH81pndYEQawOpKSckVXzaF8NbBRgctL8wCUlu5A0J U=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgUFACHoMVKtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABbgwc4UsBigRwWdIIlAQEBAwEBAQE3PwwEAgEIDgMEAQEBChQJByEGCxQJCAIEAQ0FCIdoAwkGDLJYDYlFjH2CPTEHBoMXgQADlhCDGIsRhTODIoIq
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.90,891,1371081600"; d="scan'208";a="258734387"
Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Sep 2013 16:17:10 +0000
Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id r8CGHAE8024717 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:17:10 GMT
Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.209]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.02.0318.004; Thu, 12 Sep 2013 11:17:09 -0500
From: "Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)" <mzanaty@cisco.com>
To: Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com>, "'DRAGE, Keith (Keith)'" <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com>, 'Colin Perkins' <csp@csperkins.org>, 'Magnus Westerlund' <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>, "'Dale R. Worley'" <worley@ariadne.com>
Thread-Topic: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC 5761?
Thread-Index: AQHOrukHo+lHVq+nbEyXc10cGFlbGJnArksQgACmFgCAAEGNYIAApicA///wuQA=
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:17:08 +0000
Message-ID: <3879D71E758A7E4AA99A35DD8D41D3D91D53634F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com>
References: <201309101932.r8AJWOBj916357@shell01.TheWorld.com> <026301ceae62$8ff6d770$afe48650$@gmail.com> <523008E0.7050209@ericsson.com> <8357B75E-44D2-4C34-82BA-350447AEB48E@csperkins.org> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B0A2BFA@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> <3879D71E758A7E4AA99A35DD8D41D3D91D528CDD@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <00a501ceaf2f$332e0220$998a0660$@gmail.com> <3879D71E758A7E4AA99A35DD8D41D3D91D53507F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <010b01ceafa3$0d3e2670$27ba7350$@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <010b01ceafa3$0d3e2670$27ba7350$@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
x-originating-ip: [10.150.29.189]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
Cc: "avt@ietf.org" <avt@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC 5761?
X-BeenThere: avt@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance <avt.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/avt>, <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/avt>
List-Post: <mailto:avt@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt>, <mailto:avt-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 16:18:32 -0000
Hi Roni, I completely agree it is not standard and should be fixed. But I also agree with RFC 5761 that 64-95 should be avoided. Mo -----Original Message----- From: Roni Even [mailto:ron.even.tlv@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 6:30 AM To: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty); 'DRAGE, Keith (Keith)'; 'Colin Perkins'; 'Magnus Westerlund'; 'Dale R. Worley' Cc: avt@ietf.org Subject: RE: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC 5761? Mo, This usage of FIR based on RFC2032 for H.264 is not standard and should not be a problem of the IETF!!!!! Roni > -----Original Message----- > From: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) [mailto:mzanaty@cisco.com] > Sent: 12 September, 2013 9:05 AM > To: Roni Even; 'DRAGE, Keith (Keith)'; 'Colin Perkins'; 'Magnus Westerlund'; > 'Dale R. Worley' > Cc: avt@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC > 5761? > > Hi Roni, > > The webrtc RTP code is based on GIPS, which historically implemented FIR via > RFC 2032 even for new codecs like H.264. Even if webrtc fixes this, products > which used GIPS may still be using this. So I think it is safer to avoid 64-65 per > RFC 5761 (which notes that they are obsoleted by RFC 4587, but still says to > avoid them). > > I like Colin's offer to file an errata statement on the IANA considerations in > RFC 5761 to handle this. I think we should take him up on it and avoid some > milestones. :) > > Cheers, > Mo > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roni Even [mailto:ron.even.tlv@gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:41 PM > To: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty); 'DRAGE, Keith (Keith)'; 'Colin Perkins'; 'Magnus > Westerlund'; 'Dale R. Worley' > Cc: avt@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect RFC > 5761? > > Hi Mo, > Are you saying the webrtc code support old historical H.261 messages (in a > compliant interoperable way!!!) which are not relevant to any of the new > video codec (H.264 or VP8) . It is better to force it to change to using CCM RFC > 5104 and for H.261 use RFC4587 > > This is the text from RFC 4587 explaining why they can be deprecated. > > Optional H.261-Specific Control Packets > > RFC 2032 defined two H.261-specific RTCP control packets, "Full > INTRA-frame Request" and "Negative Acknowledgement". Support of > these control packets was optional. The H.261-specific control > packets differ from normal RTCP packets in that they are not > transmitted to the normal RTCP destination transport address for the > RTP session (which is often a multicast address). Instead, these > control packets are sent directly via unicast from the decoder to the > encoder. The destination port for these control packets is the same > port that the encoder uses as a source port for transmitting RTP > (data) packets. Therefore, these packets may be considered "reverse" > control packets. This memo suggests generic methods to address the > same requirement. The authors of the documents are not aware of > products that support these control packets. Since these are > optional features, new implementations SHALL ignore them, and they > SHALL NOT be used by new implementations. > Roni > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mo Zanaty (mzanaty) [mailto:mzanaty@cisco.com] > > Sent: 11 September, 2013 9:31 PM > > To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith); Colin Perkins; Magnus Westerlund; Roni Even > > (ron.even.tlv@gmail.com); Dale R. Worley (worley@ariadne.com) > > Cc: avt@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect > > RFC 5761? > > > > RFC 5761 already has all bases covered in very clear text. > > So I think the only thing needed is to update the registry. > > The "Reference" should be "[RFC5761][RFC3551]", as Dale suggested. > > The final rows should be updated as follows, almost as Dale suggested. > > > > OLD: > > 35-71 Unassigned > > 72-76 Reserved for RTCP conflict avoidance [RFC3551] > > 77-95 Unassigned > > 96-127 dynamic [RFC3551] > > > > NEW: > > 35-63 Unassigned > > 64-95 Reserved for RTCP conflict avoidance [RFC5761][RFC3551] > > 96-127 dynamic [RFC5761][RFC3551] > > > > This differs from the draft below, and slightly from what Dale suggested. > > The draft allows 64-65 as dynamic, contrary to RFC5761, which is bad. > > While 64-65 are historic, they are actually in use, even in the webrtc > code! > > > > Mo > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: avt-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > > Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:18 AM > > To: Colin Perkins; Magnus Westerlund > > Cc: avt@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect > > RFC 5761? > > > > At the time this was first discussed, there was a need to record > > things in > the > > IANA registry that were not there. So yes, an update to the IANA > > registry > is > > required, and that is not necessarily depending on progressing an RFC. > > > > However, part of the proposal originally made were to express things > > in > the > > IANA registry that were clearly not just a registration action for a > codepoint. > > It is those aspects, if they are still required, that need an RFC. > > > > I'd have to go back to the original mails to work out what those were, > > but > put > > simply, if the action involves anything more than documenting a > > codepoint based on information in an existing RFC, then it needs a new > > RFC to cover > it. > > > > Regards > > > > Keith > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: avt-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:avt-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > > > Of Colin Perkins > > > Sent: 11 September 2013 12:01 > > > To: Magnus Westerlund > > > Cc: avt@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to reflect > > > RFC 5761? > > > > > > On 11 Sep 2013, at 07:08, Magnus Westerlund > > > <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > > On 2013-09-10 22:15, Roni Even wrote: > > > >> Hi Dale, > > > >> We started working in it see > > > >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-avtcore-dynamic-pt-usage-01 > > > >> Please review > > > >> Roni Even > > > > > > > > Roni, as WG chair I think you need to be a bit more clear in your > > > > statement. You and your co-author has an individual proposal that > > > > the WG > > > should write and publish an RFC make the situation clearer. > > > > > > > > I think the WG has choices in three main directions: > > > > > > > > 1) Do nothing > > > > 2) Update the registry > > > > 3) Write some type of RFC to provide further clarifications, > > > > possibly updating any of the existing RFCs that defines current > behavior. > > > > > > > > As a chair I do like to get the WG participants view on which of > > > > these directions you think is appropriate. Please do motivate why > > > > you > > think so. > > > > > > > > > I think the working group chairs should ask IANA to fix the registry. > > > It is clearly an oversight that the IANA considerations of RFC 5761 > > > didn't ask IANA to make the changes at the time, and that RFC is > > > very clear what payload types need to be reserved, so I'd expect > > > IANA to be willing to do this without needing an additional RFC. > > > > > > If not, I'm happy to file an errata statement on the IANA > > > considerations of RFC 5761. > > > > > > -- > > > Colin Perkins > > > http://csperkins.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance avt@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt > > _______________________________________________ > > Audio/Video Transport Core Maintenance avt@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/avt
- [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry to r… Dale R. Worley
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Magnus Westerlund
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Colin Perkins
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … DRAGE, Keith (Keith)
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Roni Even
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Dale R. Worley
- Re: [AVTCORE] Should we update the IANA registry … Mo Zanaty (mzanaty)