Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routing protocols
Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk> Sun, 18 December 2022 09:03 UTC
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From: Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>
To: Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com>
cc: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, BIER WG <bier@ietf.org>, "routing-discussion@ietf.org" <routing-discussion@ietf.org>, Matt Mathis <mattmathis=40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "tsv-area@ietf.org" <tsv-area@ietf.org>, Jon Crowcroft <Jon.Crowcroft@cl.cam.ac.uk>, pim <pim@ietf.org>
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Comments: In-reply-to Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> message dated "Sun, 18 Dec 2022 09:11:50 +0200."
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Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2022 09:03:45 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of routing protocols
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Yes, additionsally, though, we can learn lessons from data centers where there is a whole body ofwork on dealing with many-to-many (e.g. apps using map/reduce platforms and similar) that cause congestion in ways that might often be analgous to control plane traffic between routers of many kinds - this work post dates most the TFRC work (though usually is baselined on that for the pairwise case) - way back when saly & van wrote this from the routing perspective: https://www.icir.org/floyd/papers/sync_94.pdf a few years back we did this https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/nsdi15/nsdi15-paper-grosvenor_update.pdf which is from the data center, swtch queueu perspective (so about 75% non relevant) but table 2 on page 13 might give some ideas... cheers jon p.s. some people might like that you can click on the graphs in our paper and you get to go to the link for pages that hold code and data > > On 17 Dec, 2022, at 4:32 pm, Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang > <zzhang=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > - There are situations where a non-TCP based solution is needed even > when a parallel TCP-based option is also present, so we can not simply > disallow the former. We can discuss examples separately (one example is > actually PIM as BIER overlay vs mLDP/BGP as BIER overlay). > > There are also congestion control algorithms that don't rely on an > underlying TCP session, such as TFRC (TCP Friendly Rate Control). > Possibly these could be applied to existing protocols. > > - Jonathan Morton > _______________________________________________ > routing-discussion mailing list > routing-discussion@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/routing-discussion >
- [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routing p… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Greg Shepherd
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Matt Mathis
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Stewart Bryant
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Bless, Roland (TM)
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Matt Mathis
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Dirk Trossen
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Michael Welzl
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Robert Raszuk
- [Bier] OT and trimmed (was Re: Q on the congestio… Curtis Villamizar
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Dino Farinacci
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Robert Raszuk
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Masataka Ohta
- [Bier] RRG thoughts (was [pim] Q on the congestio… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] Q on the congestion awareness of routi… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] RRG thoughts (was [pim] Q on the conge… Luigi Iannone
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] RRG thoughts (was [pim] Q on the conge… Abdussalam Baryun
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Michael Richardson
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jon Crowcroft
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Adamson, Robert B CIV USN NRL (5592) Washington DC (USA)
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Bier] [pim] Q on the congestion awareness of… Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang