IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Bier] PIM light (draft-ietf-pim-light) and PORT (RFC6559)

"Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com> Wed, 09 November 2022 10:59 UTC

Return-Path: <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
X-Original-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bier@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC449C1522B2; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 02:59:18 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.476
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.476 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.571, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PoSwVPOmznGR; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 02:59:14 -0800 (PST)
Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10on2093.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.93.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2761C14F736; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 02:59:14 -0800 (PST)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=cH0MYkOYucYKYC0UywsVlgcGoEiXpEKDoH4iLB81eOEsEcoUAgJ06MWFEcRW80z8jVQ8fZsdL1J6nnz/y+31Ss1u2OxKhObWqYkHBPSygHM8O++ljRG+exhYAE1gs2Ec+S+Xh7ru30EILnv5er1cX9ayjCnGYlAhjdS21nyvFaTPD1tQHF3qk3lEp/t18iZ0Qxi9++pPTstSE6xeNc9D3fM+mO7P9PONwZ2cwp+I5PL2HF6AOOH/LvpQT6NzDdl8rLdnozOqUIwgf3LEzkXty9ZusHSXNSlE12m4kppPBDz9HKpRoK0RVxpeetjVrmbAY8yHRHA5CDfW0BLrkurWWQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=m5UAa/AYX5dLGM2AUqj90sepDk9GNYmYvvxAJ53qdUg=; b=KNt1SDnMyKGJUyncQS+/2wgb7Ws8bcrWbN+M4dB05wwGxUzokMLIeuF8HLKr/VFoE9BtCQ3ngu6jOTiLEZIGxGaTxo3Jt5x3uCWmYfS4yu8xZ03UfVKbjYcQOl22mAUOJ2LJF7IMNDCV17+JeA1VwX/6ZoEBK66WISNfh0aUkOHZW/KdnCe+QB21zqRRaaqrltHmivg61WseCq8923OBuc1zwqpR9W/keO/ULxU/qjd28tDhuWUDE06DbILZvvPrQNbft8+zNcfjzZ6Bo1hKKfADQeEauf0BX7/oUs327iITBWdxqtqHzVI3kgaThiWjdujb0fKCxuxmX3yppx11vQ==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia.com; dkim=pass header.d=nokia.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=m5UAa/AYX5dLGM2AUqj90sepDk9GNYmYvvxAJ53qdUg=; b=BwqBrzEvfMUFDeAHK7JwvMcFpHhyXPpcQfxzDS3fksn132HqCK30Hq/dbAfHHz4b/YTsT4wwsIKgU4Grz/yIpsdCWXngkBToCuLPyiOpJWBphYhypKbD8qhX/8mvtYqPiWqgPAkXFc4sG/XcmukVfymhR22B0KVf1bKxSPqWNVw=
Received: from PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:30::8) by PH0PR08MB8251.namprd08.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:510:16c::15) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5791.27; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:59:12 +0000
Received: from PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e4e8:82b0:aa4c:9323]) by PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::e4e8:82b0:aa4c:9323%7]) with mapi id 15.20.5791.027; Wed, 9 Nov 2022 10:59:12 +0000
From: "Bidgoli, Hooman (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <hooman.bidgoli@nokia.com>
To: Toerless Eckert <tte@cs.fau.de>, "pim@ietf.org" <pim@ietf.org>
CC: "bier@ietf.org" <bier@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Bier] PIM light (draft-ietf-pim-light) and PORT (RFC6559)
Thread-Index: AQHY9CJHNMKnzE3lh0ag7T11X6m71a42aukg
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 10:59:11 +0000
Message-ID: <PH0PR08MB658182000484E8507BE6D376913E9@PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
References: <Y2t6WvgRaI2N+AeH@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
In-Reply-To: <Y2t6WvgRaI2N+AeH@faui48e.informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;dmarc=none action=none header.from=nokia.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: PH0PR08MB6581:EE_|PH0PR08MB8251:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: a1eed458-726d-4159-48f8-08dac2416f29
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230022)(4636009)(136003)(346002)(366004)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(451199015)(33656002)(478600001)(38100700002)(55016003)(38070700005)(86362001)(83380400001)(53546011)(71200400001)(2906002)(26005)(186003)(9686003)(66946007)(6506007)(7696005)(122000001)(82960400001)(5660300002)(8936002)(966005)(41300700001)(52536014)(66556008)(64756008)(4326008)(316002)(66476007)(66446008)(76116006)(110136005)(8676002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: PH0PR08MB6581.namprd08.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a1eed458-726d-4159-48f8-08dac2416f29
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Nov 2022 10:59:11.9829 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: qdMxRFNpCPU2KpC6kZBZyeEm2HD2lyFXlRzdhQiVPDDG7eguTmHrLZRT2+AH23hdqeANZXNIZmaAYEL7TZ72M6oWMHgvdbbz0DAfkJeAXfI=
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR08MB8251
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bier/Jk8Uk6AYj6T7EyPhRasLCCcCpIo>
Subject: Re: [Bier] PIM light (draft-ietf-pim-light) and PORT (RFC6559)
X-BeenThere: bier@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: "\"Bit Indexed Explicit Replication discussion list\"" <bier.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bier/>
List-Post: <mailto:bier@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier>, <mailto:bier-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2022 10:59:18 -0000

Hi Toerless

I had a quick read of RFC6559, first read I don't see an issue supporting PIM light for this RFC.

That said I am not in favor of the wording that PIM Light "MUST" be over TCP. I think this is a implementation choice. 
PIM light should work over both and it should be a implementation choice. 

So I think the wording should be PIM light would work with RFC 6559 as well and it is agnostic to the layer 4 transport

Thanks
Hooman

-----Original Message-----
From: BIER <bier-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Toerless Eckert
Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2022 5:01 AM
To: pim@ietf.org
Cc: bier@ietf.org
Subject: [Bier] PIM light (draft-ietf-pim-light) and PORT (RFC6559)

Repeating here on the list what i said on the mike @IETF115, PIM, also Cc' BIER WG as hopefully a beneficiary of this work (draft-ietf-pim-light).

We really had a lot of reliability problems under reconvergence of PIM with large amounts of stte which are well applicable as a problem to the target use-cases of PIM light, especially with BIER which will allow up to support a lot of state much better. Thousands of PIM joins that under routing reconvergence events have to be buffered as a huge burst and/or vendor specific pacing that reduces convergence performance.

We solved these problems with mLDP and BGP signaling instead of PIM, and we also then solved them for PIM via PIM over TCP (RFC6559).

I would really like to see:

a) The authors/WG check if/what if any issues threre would be to
   use PORT with pIM light. I hope/expect none, but if there are,
   lets discuss.

b) Include a requirement that PIM light MUST default to use PORT
   and MAY support datagram PIM encapsulation.

Aka: i really see no reason to continue to use datagram encap with PIM light, so the "MAY" is really just for unforeseen cases.

Cheers
    Toerless

_______________________________________________
BIER mailing list
BIER@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bier

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email