IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Bimi] [EXTERNAL] Re: Updated BIMI drafts

"Brotman, Alex" <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com> Tue, 12 October 2021 15:07 UTC

Return-Path: <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>
X-Original-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: bimi@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 190753A11CF for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 08:07:12 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.1
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=comcast.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNADoS4MhrJl for <bimi@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com [148.163.141.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2ECA3A1164 for <bimi@ietf.org>; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 08:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0184890.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 19CF4Dqj015309; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 11:07:03 -0400
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=20190412; bh=n6JtY5+RHN06Z/AO/6wWqe8eqh/yZ1SCqEc8C+We0tE=; b=AehARv0Ulp4O4gDfIsJm4GmDYNwapZ0aY87FRsSFaehytn2KumZhlWmyNI3417bpvN4t aqMUlnWYcc9q91H4c0TUCiRMoOoEB2LERCFg2dXUnadrm6JRmgBJRuXqixhotXb5T/5N 4wrS5A5qTj71iY0hqgclwbkib78mMFNSr3A1R7oV91ycDwILMbk5J+SreyFTHbbvCdDx NdjzK8muM95Vo84k9P/3wk9LfrVP0/VDf0LGlqKDGTJHXtbmHaUf1Glj+AeYXz8PdYQi Z0/nRLSkOPlti7T2j9w4MS9vDG4oqHFnZn3h7p8MV8/pQpLmUJ+tei9Gy8LrlC54Z7+q Fg==
Received: from copdcexc34.cable.comcast.com (dlppfpt-po-1p.slb.comcast.com [96.99.226.137]) by mx0b-00143702.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3bn9q1tn2x-36 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 12 Oct 2021 11:07:02 -0400
Received: from COPDCEXC36.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.135) by copdcexc34.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.133) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:07:00 -0600
Received: from COPDCEXEDGE02.resource.comcast.net (76.96.35.199) by COPDCEXC36.cable.comcast.com (147.191.125.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.2242.12 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 09:07:00 -0600
Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (104.47.66.40) by webmail.comcast.com (76.96.35.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.2.858.15; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 08:06:48 -0700
Received: from MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:193::31) by BL0PR11MB3460.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:6e::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4587.22; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:06:45 +0000
Received: from MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24ec:21c2:64ab:d603]) by MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::24ec:21c2:64ab:d603%7]) with mapi id 15.20.4587.026; Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:06:45 +0000
From: "Brotman, Alex" <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>
To: "dcrocker@bbiw.net" <dcrocker@bbiw.net>, "BIMI (IETF) (bimi@ietf.org)" <bimi@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Bimi] Updated BIMI drafts
Thread-Index: Ade+yqwpVLLyTjhhRMi9IDce1WMKVQADR4GAACiHftA=
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:06:45 +0000
Message-ID: <MN2PR11MB4351A3D1E3A3C6F509E72567F7B69@MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MN2PR11MB4351EBC892ED9DCBF92A9B71F7B59@MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com> <0b1f4f00-da22-c2e5-6583-d7af2f27fdcd@dcrocker.net>
In-Reply-To: <0b1f4f00-da22-c2e5-6583-d7af2f27fdcd@dcrocker.net>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: bbiw.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;bbiw.net; dmarc=none action=none header.from=comcast.com;
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 44d5d21d-b98d-43f7-d04e-08d98d91e845
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BL0PR11MB3460:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BL0PR11MB346094331C9E617F00DBBB3BF7B69@BL0PR11MB3460.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:4714;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: eQOfnqg4O/L9TvGIl++LAdmadFh6wlfx/B/95OY8EcZUAU3C2F0Lz/vm1CmwjDSwzCln1ewaSG76YxrImT+RWgkPSsk9mFPY1lCaNLZuskwrQE9NXWHSwlk3IVXokT09A5m6QB57Uacm9xepyWnuXfrhT4zY2TrIvUR/9pAf7q+S66wnKSxME/kPCJKfEmzBda00ihpH3rrVF76zeXDtY5T6YTPNeOHEaVS9VitfDOGopZAjuygEGJt/sr6NNg6qyCk9/9PL2X8T2SQq6YhuAmKqf1EkjXRAB2XSj8UA6Z7y0aww1Q9GX/tinNR25a8rEzBx6f0nqafhpvoI5gGpH5YkzQBka4q+3IlE5HsbNq6D+9FAlje6kv3uLZ/filFAVF2x7AdvN/AO8Wr2dTQuUXAhcV5BHByqCkjXJOBucMhCGlEDYChPohrCu53i+t9BJ82/9fUX2FvCXBqIU81pLrCq6A9AKrJzLJow2nEYmEkvBz16Z9f0DqxPJsuyLRO/7cCw+c+wpRwEYF8QRbC/kssvGuiwcSDkEq7Ygg6aaI0fXrK2l0+IqSwzytfwbaWxSNLkM5Kzd5PGORgOIcTa939osAm4q4lOlnubG5rRUq0l2Esp/n6L++LgUVW9URHY2pYzGhNMpvhpEZGNQmyPHOG4bphe4IdULDWgJ63AfQUJ54O0T4EW7jxvVj1vq4pdtRGKLnbpD6cc6ooaFhpILD0RQnv7DuSKMK4rqATPVkPbitJmqx3+4/nnq8tl/iekT2zTXKrACTNbCXNbTQTagCGToaWJAtYCTSH8bPFVUoU=
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(5660300002)(2906002)(71200400001)(6506007)(7696005)(508600001)(38100700002)(38070700005)(53546011)(52536014)(186003)(122000001)(15650500001)(76116006)(66446008)(64756008)(66556008)(66946007)(66476007)(8936002)(86362001)(316002)(9686003)(33656002)(8676002)(110136005)(83380400001)(55016002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
arc-seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=EL/beD8gwRiTvDe9jTVsTPMmmziEFhnEVHWXsStgXudBBsOaq2d3qlu8fWpAQEe2BDiPPVh/dBtpADUxszgpza/RIXE03laxH2a3xdi5yn+3XZ2oSZxA7/Hmi93/AyPWs89EoaazZGpAdSGUUBLRNbxydpIF2w1h7uqSTg7mqkUWa15RKmrc6JEa4EdJBXabH8MenPzPNhf58neAKde3X40CzIcIIGFi9D2Htsy2XqB7wgj28Yr4RFVZXMchxOsejFgIeCzYH2oZIaoBQ2jTOeBZ0a2JcSXqfrBcVo/misC8WkSzZSR4Ubv7QNKfnmmGRXR43GVoLPvXY9N606ipVA==
arc-message-signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=8ej0cjrvqGnJaxe+QJBvaD+8d0CY8lXcmWxuECshVKw=; b=F7r/KpzpdjhLAcbAvqVJoC2X//ivpgY39MtIc9s8g7EfuXs0rZBzg/XuAhBa3POyABJFwGjBo7Tqd+Jn0WgCJ7Nrl+xI1LyoMv1R4Hkd3AtaWeb0qcbkGP+TpR2A5OsdLOe17NmMA5tb0aC0A3X4pzswh1KmThffGeK54DsnE2jwAHPZTJO7oJcqbOcXRgCvBUlGdPXHVDj/kqNcvyq+WAdL/iAAVkBXsnmYtQBatBdPNgNBWBxx7U4zWVH9EnfoYq5HKe02jclNbLYB/GenPD4PHaVFTNR0gEv+/WY9sfLskY7T8tcudZl6enw0OFtUZTCt1hDfgAY/a3z1dlveFA==
arc-authentication-results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=comcast.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=comcast.com; dkim=pass header.d=comcast.com; arc=none
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authas: Internal
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-authsource: MN2PR11MB4351.namprd11.prod.outlook.com
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-network-message-id: 44d5d21d-b98d-43f7-d04e-08d98d91e845
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Oct 2021 15:06:45.4270 (UTC)
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-id: 906aefe9-76a7-4f65-b82d-5ec20775d5aa
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
x-ms-exchange-crosstenant-userprincipalname: p8wSducikG87i5GENCcxv/ujnRQS0AiAXO4RObesZ+maSswjlw7ox6mKf7YxoTrHGXJbvDrv2i21j5X5nIYN6ZrXT3S00C/NA+MBBp9+Vv0=
x-ms-exchange-transport-crosstenantheadersstamped: BL0PR11MB3460
x-originatororg: comcast.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-CFilter-Loop: Forward AAETWC
X-Proofpoint-GUID: nASYlS_gnHnLP_l5QM6PhLeoiex4WdgJ
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: nASYlS_gnHnLP_l5QM6PhLeoiex4WdgJ
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.182.1,Aquarius:18.0.790,Hydra:6.0.425,FMLib:17.0.607.475 definitions=2021-10-12_04,2021-10-12_01,2020-04-07_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Reason: safe
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/bimi/H4z30lFJZ5Fi0J2IbBJ-jv6yaxM>
Subject: Re: [Bimi] [EXTERNAL] Re: Updated BIMI drafts
X-BeenThere: bimi@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Brand Indicators for Message Identification <bimi.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/bimi/>
List-Post: <mailto:bimi@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bimi>, <mailto:bimi-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 15:07:12 -0000

Dave,

You're right.  That could have been better phrased, though it is meant to refer to the VMC.  I'll create a Trac item for getting that clarified.

And correct the draft name with the next iteration.

Thank you for the feedback.

--
Alex Brotman
Sr. Engineer, Anti-Abuse & Messaging Policy
Comcast

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Crocker <dhc@dcrocker.net>
> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2021 3:40 PM
> To: BIMI (IETF) (bimi@ietf.org) <bimi@ietf.org>; Brotman, Alex
> <Alex_Brotman@comcast.com>
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Bimi] Updated BIMI drafts
>
> On 10/11/2021 11:10 AM, Brotman, Alex wrote:
> > 5:https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-b
> > rotman-ietf-bimi-
> guidance/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!RghGoiU82XsXQqDe7nEs7aR8ZJbI
> > iUp2sz22Jqqk1IRDCpe4OtHirbUN8i0RH6ytRg4l$
>
>  From the Introduction:
>
> > The Brand Indicators for Message Identification (BIMI) specification
> >    introduces a method by which Mail User Agent (MUA, e.g., an email
> >    client) providers combine DMARC-based message authentication with
> >    cryptographic methods to ensure the identity of a sender.
>
>
> Alex,
>
> This appears to be stating rather plainly that BIMI is a 'sender'
> authentication mechanism.  That is, it appears to be claiming authentication
> beyond what DMARC, et al, already do.
>
> Unless something has dramatically changed, BIMI does not do that
> (whatever 'sender' means).
>
> Again, unless something has changed dramatically, BIMI's incremental
> mechanism serves to provide 'authorization' for use of a specific resource.
> That's quite different from authentication.
>
> Please clarify.
>
> d/
>
> ps.  Also, this draft has 'ietf' in the file name.  Why?
>
> --
> Dave Crocker
> Brandenburg InternetWorking
> bbiw.net

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email