[bmwg] BMWG minutes for IETF-58 proceedings
Al Morton <acmorton@att.com> Wed, 03 December 2003 12:56 UTC
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Subject: [bmwg] BMWG minutes for IETF-58 proceedings
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BMWG, Here are the minutes as submitted to the proceedings, our thanks to the note-takers and those who made comments. The slides have been temporarily posted here: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/03nov/index.html Kevin/Al Benchmarking Methodology WG (bmwg) Wednesday, November 12, 2003, 1300-1500 ======================================= CHAIRS Kevin Dubray <kdubray@juniper.net> Al Morton <acmorton@att.com> Reported by Al Morton and Kevin Dubray, using information generously compiled by Scott Poretsky and Tony DeLaRosa as official note-takers. About 25 people attended the BMWG session. The session's agenda was approved as presented. 1. Working Group Status (Morton) The status of various BMWG I-Ds and proposals were reported thusly: AD/IESG Review <draft-ietf-bmwg-conterm-05.txt>, revised, under review. <draft-ietf-bmwg-mcastm-13.txt>, OPS Directorate Comments <draft-ietf-bmwg-ospfconv-term-06.txt>, OPS Dir Comments <draft-ietf-bmwg-ospfconv-intraarea-06.txt>, same <draft-ietf-bmwg-ospfconv-applicability-03.txt>, same I-D Last Call <draft-ietf-bmwg-fib-meth-01.txt>, Call ended 3/14. <draft-ietf-bmwg-dsmterm-08.txt>, Call ended 11/7, w/comment. I-Ds <draft-ietf-bmwg-ipsec-term-02.txt>, draft 10/2003, comments@57 <draft-ietf-bmwg-benchres-term-04.txt>, back in WG, comments@57 <draft-ietf-bmwg-acc-bench-term-01.txt> Revised on comments <draft-ietf-bmwg-acc-bench-framework-00.txt> New <draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-term-01.txt> Revised <draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-meth-01.txt> Revised <draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-app-01.txt> Revised Expired BMWG I-Ds <draft-ietf-bmwg-bgpbas-01.txt>, Pending term. progress <draft-ietf-bmwg-benchres-method-00.txt> Pending term progress New Work proposals. <draft-kimura-protection-term-02.txt> <draft-poretsky-mpls-protection-meth-01.txt> The old BMWG I-D on FIB benchmarking methodology I-D (expired) seems to be dying a quiet death. It was one of the original I-Ds to address convergence. The WG needs to decide whether this work is critical to the body of convergence work or not. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2. Benchmarking Network-layer Traffic Control Mechanisms: Terminology -- Communicate latest changes & results of WG Last Call ending Nov 7th. (J. Perser et al.) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-dsmterm-08.txt http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/bmwg/current/ Jerry Perser presented slides (see proceedings) outlining the changes reflected in the latest version of the draft as well as issues surrounding the term "Channel Capacity". Jerry briefly articulated the notion of "forwarding capacity," as a possible successor to the channel capacity term. Jerry hopes to get the wording incorporated into the I-D quickly. A last call will be issued subsequent to the I-D's announcement. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3. IPsec Device Benchmarking Terminology I-D. New developments in 02. Finalize recent list discussions on the packet mix possibilities; this topic has relevance to many other efforts. (A. Morton) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-ipsec-term-02.txt http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/bmwg/current/ Al thanked Michele Bustos, Tim Van Herck and Merike Kaeo for preparing slide material. The question at the top of the docket for this draft was "IMIX", or the specifying of an offered load composed of something other than a series of packets having the same size. Three possible alternatives for "mixes" were presented to the working group. Commentary was offered that while this discussion was beneficial, it doesn't appear exclusively bound to IPsec benchmarking. It was suggested that the issue be handled outside the scope of the IPsec benchmarking, in a more general BMWG context. Heads nodded. There was concern expressed that any single mix of packet sizes would not be typical for all classes of users. For example, the NLANR notion of IMIX might not be typical for users of, say, VPNs. It was countered that the specification could allow a generalized packet mix (hereafter referred to as a "mix") to be specified locally by the testing body, with strict requirements on mix reporting. It was pointed out that local specification of mix may short-circuit the notion "neutrality" that is very desirable in benchmarks. That is to say, a "mix" while adequately documented, could still be biased based on the mix's composition. So, it was argued, viable solutions might be: a) give everyone a single mix, or b) give no one a mix (as BMWG has done to date). If, on the other hand, locally defined mixes were deemed acceptable, the group believed that the mix option requiring strict reporting constraints must be in place. It was pointed out that a mix composed of an increasing sweep of packet sizes is a subset of the locally defined "mix" option. It was again articulated this discussion should happen independent of the IPsec terminology work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4. IGP Data plane convergence benchmark I-Ds. Changes from 00 to 01 to address issues from mailing list. Ready for Last Call? Authors believe these are ready. (S.Poretsky) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-term-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-meth-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-igp-dataplane-conv-app-01.txt Scott presented his slides which outlined changes to the I-Ds and new terms added. One of the new terms, "Packet Sampling Interval", essentially sets the time resolution for re-convergence measurements. There was a comment that the draft should have recommendations for the appropriate intervals to use with respect to the measured convergence time interval. Scott described the existing recommendations using 0.1 second Packet Sampling Interval. The 01 terminology and methodology drafts provide some detail, but there was interest expressed in more explicit recommendations in this area. Much time was spent on the slide which illustrated various terms that describe the dataplane's response to failure/re-convergence (e.g., Convergence Event Instant, Convergence Event Transition, Convergence Recovery Transition, Convergence Recovery Instant, etc.) on their relation with each other. (Slide 4 in this talk, see proceedings.) A question was posed on how do you capture the graph of Slide 4 in the methodology. One brand of test equipment produced this plot, but not all test equipment will produce a graph like this, and graphing the results is an exercise left to the reader. Scott replied that all the required components are in the reporting section of the Methodology I-D and defined in the Terminology ID (where a tabular format is defined). There was some discussion regarding the manner to capture the specific times of rate stability (or instability). Scott said the methodology maintains a continuous survey for which there are 2 major constraints: 1) do you have full convergence, 2) how long do you sustain that convergence. Another question was asked regarding how would a reduction in frame rate following convergence affect the convergence time. Scott replied the convergence time approaches infinity in this case (perhaps the DUT never achieves Full Convergence). Regarding convergence recovery instant, how does one determine the precise times that there are no longer packet losses? It was thought that the return to "full frame rate" would reflect that instant (the definition of Rate-Derived Convergence time will be revised). It was offered that it appeared that the indicators for convergence need to be better defined, since one needs multiple measurements over time to declare stability. In summary, use of Forwarding Rate in the definitions and discussion of time "Instants" may be preferable to Packet Loss, since these Instants are indispensable to Rate-Derived Convergence Time. Also, there was agreement to define a time period for evaluation of convergence stability following the "Convergence Recovery Instant". The meeting was reminded by an attendee that the BMWG should strive to produce definitions that are understandable without pictures (this is generally good advice). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. Terminology for Benchmarking Core Router Accelerated Life Testing. Changes to Term from 00 to 01. New Framework Draft 00. Application of Term and Framework to build forthcoming Methodology Issues? Comments? Concerns? (S. Poretsky et al.) http://www.ietf.cnri.reston.va.us/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-acc-bench-term-01.txt http://www.ietf.cnri.reston.va.us/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-bmwg-acc-bench-framework-00.txt The main comments on this topic sought better definitions of the terms and benchmarks. Unexpected Loss, a form of error that would trigger the end of a test interval, needs to be clearly differentiated from other losses that are expected (on the same interfaces). There was a suggestion to go beyond loss, and define errors in terms of packet delay and reordering. From a management interface perspective, very long delay on an SSH connection is as bad as loss (can't manage the box). The current benchmarks assess the relative performance as a time interval of correct operation, but have a Pass/Fail criteria as opposed to quantitative characterization. The benchmarking methodology needs to characterize the DUT performance along a dimension that allows easy comparison with other vendor's products, so the approach should be to use stressful configurations that produce errors in a short amount of time. Discussion revealed that some participants use this sort of testing in RFPs, and also to compare vendor's products with under user-specific conditions, and for this the terminology and framework may be enough info. But there should be a very explicit connection to the traditional black-box benchmarks added to these drafts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6. Revised Milestones. (Chairs) The proposed milestones were presented without remarkable commentary. Revise: Dec 03 Resource Reservation Benchmarking Terminology to AD Review Dec 03 Net Traffic Control Benchmarking Terminology to AD Review Dec 03 Support EGP Convergence Benchmarking Terminology through AD Review Dec 03 Support Multicast Benchmarking Methodology through AD Review Mar 04 Support OSPF Convergence Benchmarking Drafts through AD Review New: Dec 03 IPsec Device Benchmarking Terminology to AD Review Dec 04 Net Traffic Control Benchmarking Methodology to AD Review. Dec 04 IPsec Device Benchmarking Methodology to AD Review Dec 03 IGP/Data-Plane Terminology I-D to AD Review Mar 04 IGP/Data-Plane Methodology and Applicability I-Ds to AD Review Dec 03 Router Accelerated Test Terminology I-D to AD Review Jul 04 Router Accelerated Test Method. and Applicability I-Ds to AD Review Remove: (Pending FIB discussion/resolution) Apr 03 Methodology for FIB related Router Performance Benchmarking to AD review. Jul 03 Resource Reservation Benchmarking Methodology to AD Review Jul 03 Basic BGP Convergence Benchmarking Methodology to AD Review. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7. New Work Proposals on Protection Switching Methodology (now there are 2) Should BMWG take a broad, or technology-specific approach to this work? - This is a placeholder for advanced discussion of this topic - There *will* be discussion on the list before the meeting to better articulate the questions posed to attendees and the list. Earlier proposal Automatic Protection Switching Benchmark Terminology The WG has discussed this item at several previous meetings. The Goal has been articulated as follows The objective of this effort is to produce a terminology and methodology set of drafts that specifies the performance benchmarking sub-IP layer resiliency and protection technologies. There is a common terminology draft and multiple methodology drafts for the technologies. The methodology drafts will include (but not limited to) Automatic Protection Switching (APS) for SONET/SDH, Fast Reroute for Multi-Protocol Label Switching (MPLS), and Resilient Packet Ring (RPR) standardized in IEEE. (T.Kimura, J.Perser) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kimura-protection-term-02.txt New Proposal Draft on MPLS Protection Benchmarking Methodology The Goal has been articulated as follows To develop a benchmarking methodology for MPLS protection mechanisms including Headend Reroute, Standby LSP, Fast Reroute Detour Mode, and Fast Reroute Bypass Mode. Test cases will benchmark the DUT in all LSR roles including Ingress, Midpoint, Egress, PLR, and Merge Node. Test cases are provided for Link and Node protection. The most common causes of failover, such as local administrative shutdown, local link failure, and remote link failure are considered. The Benchmark for each test case is calculated from the measured packet loss during a failover event. Benchmarks can be used to compare failover performance of different Label-Switched Routers and evaluate the different MPLS protection mechanisms. The methodology uses existing MPLS and MPLS protection mechanism terminology defined in current IETF RFCs. (S.Poretsky, et al.) http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-poretsky-mpls-protection-meth-01.txt Discussion of these two new BMWG proposals vacillated between the need for MPLS-specific failover benchmarks vs. generic IP service protection provided by underlying transport mechanisms. The two approaches appear to be solidifying as separate entities. One participant identified the his need to understand the performance of MPLS network elements in their native mode of operation, at the Labeled Packet layer and in terms of LSPs or VPNs. Clearly, the original proposal/direction to characterize protection effects at the IP layer retains merit, and the terminology draft now presents a fairly advanced framework. There is a clear need to recruit more participation in both these protection-related work items (thus far discussion has been among the authors and the WG chairs). Thus the call(s) for support will include requests for participants who will actively review the work, having identified themselves as providing some valuable perspective or expertise. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8. Trends in BMWG The chairs managed to insert many comments on WG trends during the meeting, including apparent lack of readership in certain areas beyond the author list(s). There maybe a need for a change in the instructions for Last Calls, where even agreeable readers must respond with some commentary, and drafts do not progress until sufficient review has been completed. _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg