Re: [bmwg] WLAN switch controller I-Ds for BMWG to consider

In message <200707201920.l6KJKth6019906@mail134c25.carrierzone.com>
"Jerry Perser" writes:
>  
> Instead of arguing with Scott Bradner, would you mind reviewing the two WLAN
> Switch Benchmarking drafts and argue with us?  One of the reasons Tom
> Alexander is bringing the draft to the BMWG is to avoid these pitfalls.
> Your comments on the draft will help us make sure we have repeatable
> benchmarks, while keeping sight of real world traffic.

Maybe you missed the context.  I was arguing with Scott Bradner circe
1993 to mid to late 1990 about highly repeatable benchmarks vs real
world relevant benchmarks.

> Claims and crashes are not limited to Cisco.  Last year I worked with the
> esteemed David Newman on a public "Enterprise Wi-Fi Test" for Network World.
> When running WLAN Switch Benchmarking Methodology section 5.1.1, one of the
> vendors crashed repeatedly.  Before you start faulting the vendor, realize
> that they did not have a copy of WLAN Switch Benchmarking Methodology when
> verifying their beta code.

The router crashes I was talking about were in gear that was tested in
1993 to about 1997.  Interesting to note that there is gear out there
that still crashes on relatively simple benchmarks.

> Enterprise Wi-Fi needs to be tested.  Duke University is currently having
> problems with iPhones on their network
> (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/071607-duke-iphone.html).  My focus
> is to find these problems with a simulated stimuli in a laboratory
> environment and to avoid follies like you mentioned.

Thanks for bringing me up to date on this.  As I mentioned earlier, my
focus has been on IP provider core and this is beyond the edges of the
IP provider network.

> And everyone else on the BMWG reflector is invited to comment on the WLAN
> Switch Benchmarking drafts.  They can be found at:
>  
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alexander-bmwg-wlan-switch-term-00
> .txt
>  
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-alexander-bmwg-wlan-switch-meth-00
> .txt
>  
> Jerry Perser

OK.  Thanks.  You've convinced me that this is in scope for the WG.

Curtis

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Curtis Villamizar [mailto:curtis@occnc.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:12 PM
> > To: Jerry Perser
> > Cc: bmwg@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [bmwg] WLAN switch controller I-Ds for BMWG to consider
> > 
> > 
> > In message <200707191853.l6JIrf4v010095@mail124c25.carrierzone.com>
> > "Jerry Perser" writes:
> > >
> > > You comment's have me puzzled.  They don't match my experiences with the
> > > BMWG over the last several years.
> > 
> > 
> > I remember arguing with Scott Bradner circa 1992/1993 regarding
> > "Bradner Test consdiered harmfull" because Cisco was using the Bradner
> > test to claim "fastest router in the world" at a time when Cisco
> > routers fell over - literally crashed - under the loads that the
> > Internet provided.  The Cisco 7000 with its "route cache" design was
> > the height of this folly where Cisco designed specifically to get high
> > benchmark numbers on less than worthless benchmarks.
> > 
> > When routes changed the Cisco 7000 dropped packets like crazy due to
> > the route cache design.  At high enough loads BGP and IGP adjacencies
> > dropped and a network could become unstable.  At even higher loads the
> > router would crash.  But in the Bradner test the routes never changed.
> > This was the problem with high repeatability but no relevance to real
> > world traffic forwarding capability.
> > 
> > maybe it was just that some of the ISP people tried to push the focus
> > in the direction of high end but it never really was there.
> > 
> > Curtis
> > 
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