Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt
"Scott Poretsky" <sporetsky@allot.com> Mon, 02 March 2009 02:33 UTC
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Thread-Topic: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt
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From: Scott Poretsky <sporetsky@allot.com>
To: Jerry Perser <jerry@perser.org>, bmwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt
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Hi Jerry, I believe the attached posting to the mailing list provided clarification. Scott -----Original Message----- From: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bmwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Perser Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 1:58 PM To: bmwg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt Scott, My view is both. One, the BWMG focus is on a SUT/DUT. If you can draw a box around what you are testing and some of the network is outside the box, then it falls under the BMWG. If you can't draw a box around what you are testing or none of the network is outside the box, then is falls under the IPPM. My notion of what a DUT is was destroyed by a company called Avici Systems. Those guys can take 14 routers, each in their own rack, and connect them to look like a single DUT. From the networks point of view, the routers look like a single DUT. If your draft can not support SUT, you should be clear about it. I assumed that the draft supported both SUT and DUT. Please clarify if we need another draft for SUT. Two, does Al's comment about a Node Crash also apply to SUT, but not a DUT? Jerry Perser Scott Poretsky wrote: > David, > > Are you making a general statement or a point relevant to this thread? > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bmwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > David Newman > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 3:42 PM > To: bmwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt > > On 2/25/09 12:38 PM, Scott Poretsky wrote: > >> Yes, but in the BMWG we focus on a single DUT >> > > Not necessarily. Many bmwg documents use the term DUT/SUT, where SUT may > be comprised of multiple systems (just not on a production network). > > dn > > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg > _______________________________________________ > bmwg mailing list > bmwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg > > > -- Jerry Perser _______________________________________________ bmwg mailing list bmwg@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg
--- Begin Message ---OK, that's a welcome clarification. There was a line of thought I was pursuing in this thread (whether Node Crashes are correlated failures or not), and it sounds like we're closing in on this as the conclusion: Although Node Crashes may cause the other devices in the network to experience distinctly separate failure events, the DUT only observes the crash as a single failure event on its connecting link. re-booting, Al At 04:40 PM 2/25/2009, Scott Poretsky wrote: >In the test topologies for this methodology document there is only >one DUT. The DUT is always a PLR. The benchmarks are specific to >the DUT. The Tester may emulate all of the other nodes. The test >topology may have additional devices as the other nodes if the >Tester does not emulate those. This is the reason the baseline >throughput test cases are so important to perform first. > >This note will be added to the Introduction and Scope. > >Scott >Sent via BlackBerry. > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Al Morton" <acmorton@att.com> > >Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:06:02 >To: <sporetsky@allot.com>; <bmwg@ietf.org> >Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt > > >Scott, > >The meth draft has lots of SUT topologies -- >there may be one device you are focusing on (the >point of local repair, PLR), but the system's >performance is measured from TG to TA: > > -------- -------- -------- -------- > | R1 | | R2 | | R3 | | R4 | > TG-| HE | | MID |PRI | MID |PRI | TE |-TA > | |----| PLR |----| |----| | > -------- -------- -------- -------- > | | > BKP| -------- | > | | R6 | | > ---------| BKP |--------- > | MID | > -------- > > Figure 7. > >Also, the node that crashes is never the DUT, >so the system sees correlated failures. > >Al > >At 03:38 PM 2/25/2009, Scott Poretsky wrote: > >Yes, but in the BMWG we focus on a single DUT, so correlated events > >are from the point of view of the DUT. > > > >Scott > >Sent via BlackBerry. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: "Al Morton" <acmorton@att.com> > > > >Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:27:07 > >To: Scott Poretsky<sporetsky@allot.com>; <bmwg@ietf.org> > >Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt > > > > > >It seems that a Node Crash would be viewed by adjacent nodes > >as more than one of the Link Failure events listed in the definition > >of Failure Event, below. It all depends on how much of the > >network you are looking at, and a crash seems to have the same kind of > >"dependency on a common physical resource" mentioned in the definition > >of correlated events: >1 links depend on the nodes. > > > > > ...Some of these failure events are listed below. > > > > > > Link failure events > > > - Interface Shutdown on PLR side with POS Alarm > > > - Interface Shutdown on remote side with POS Alarm > > > - Interface Shutdown on PLR side with RSVP hello enabled > > > - Interface Shutdown on remote side with RSVP hello enabled > > > - Interface Shutdown on PLR side with BFD > > > - Interface Shutdown on remote side with BFD > > > - Fiber Pull on the PLR side (Both TX & RX or just the TX) > > > - Fiber Pull on the remote side (Both TX & RX or just the RX) > > > - Online insertion and removal (OIR) on PLR side > > > - OIR on remote side > > > - Sub-interface failure (e.g. shutting down of a VLAN) > > > - Parent interface shutdown (an interface bearing multiple sub- > > > interfaces > > > > > >At 12:21 PM 2/25/2009, Scott Poretsky wrote: > > >No. That is an unplanned uncorrelated failure. Correlated failures > > >require more than one Failover Event. > > > > > >Scott > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: bmwg-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:bmwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > >Al Morton > > >Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 11:14 AM > > >To: bmwg@ietf.org > > >Subject: Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-meth-04.txt > > > > > > >The last sentence of the Scope: > > > > Benchmarking of unexpected correlated failures is currently out of > > > > scope of this document. > > > >Wouldn't a Node Crash event be an example of an unexpected correlated > > >failure? > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >bmwg mailing list > > >bmwg@ietf.org > > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg > > > >_______________________________________________ > >bmwg mailing list > >bmwg@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/bmwg--- End Message ---
- [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection-met… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… David Newman
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Al Morton
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Jerry Perser
- Re: [bmwg] Comments on draft-ietf-bmwg-protection… Scott Poretsky