[Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field
adam at kde.org (Till Adam) Thu, 28 July 2005 12:06 UTC
From: "adam at kde.org"
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:06:43 +0000
Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field
In-Reply-To: <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com>
References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com>
Message-ID: <200507281554.20547.adam@kde.org>
X-Date: Thu Jul 28 12:06:43 2005
On Thursday 28 July 2005 16:03, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > On Thursday 28 July 2005 15:49, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > > <reinhold@kainhofer.com> wrote: > > > AFAICS, rfc 2445 allows special characters like the German Umlaute > > > ??????? in the CN field of the organizer or the attendee (since > > > iCalendar is UTF-8 by default). Is this correct? Or am I wrong in my > > > interpretation of the rfc here? > > > Now, the problem is that Outlook 2003 refuses to accept any such > > > invitation if the CN of an attendee or the organizer contains Umlauts. > > > > Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the > > invitation? > > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part itself) > doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The encoding of the > message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't like it if the message > is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at all... > > Till can give you the details (he's the kmail guy). Right, this issue is not about charsets, it's about transfer encoding. The characters are proper utf8, and the mime header states that correctly. But as soon as non-7bit characters are detected in a mail, we send it using either quoted-printable or 8bit content transfer encoding, depending on a user config setting. That seems to throw OL. Interestingly umlauts in the summary, which also trigger the same q.p./8bit content transfer encoding behavior seem to be parsed without problems, by OL. > > Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook where > > the organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see how > > Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. And it's also what I would very much like to avoid being forced into duplicating, in Kontact. Cheerio, Till (Please keep me in CC, I'm not on the list, thanks) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/attachments/20050728/258085dd/attachment.pgp From adam at kde.org Thu Jul 28 11:42:27 2005 From: adam at kde.org (Till Adam) Date: Thu Jul 28 12:06:44 2005 Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field In-Reply-To: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> References: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <200507282042.29404.adam@kde.org> On Thursday 28 July 2005 17:53, Cameron Stillion wrote: > I'm looking into this, but if you have ical samples with variously encoded > non-ascii characters, I'd be very happy to take attachments that will help > my investigation. Thanks, Cameron, and pleased to make your acquaintance. :) I've sent you an iTip invitation which is quoted-printable encoded utf8 and has various umlauts in the CN paramter of the ATTENDEE property. Does that do? Till -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/attachments/20050728/6573857a/attachment.pgp From sroberts at uniserve.com Fri Jul 29 17:15:49 2005 From: sroberts at uniserve.com (Sam Roberts) Date: Fri Jul 29 17:16:25 2005 Subject: [Ietf-calsify] _ characters aren't allowed in field names, are they? Message-ID: <20050730001549.GA20744@ensemble.local> RFC2425: name = x-name / iana-token iana-token = 1*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") x-name = "x-" 1*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") ALPHA is defined in RFC 2234 as a-zA-Z. I'm wondering because I'm finding X-LOTUS-CHILD_UID in some calendars. The "lotus child" part is funny, but the _ is causing me to add this character to those accepted in for group and name. Anybody else seen this? Is it common? Sam -- Work is the curse of the climbing class. Return-Path: <sroberts@uniserve.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED2C97F4CB for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8637142264 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09845-01 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts16.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.4]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ECE5142260 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 17:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ensemble.local ([64.229.203.63]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.10 201-253-122-130-110-20040306) with ESMTP id <20050730001622.MJML27508.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@ensemble.local> for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:16:22 -0400 Received: by ensemble.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0BEE9463BD7; Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:15:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:15:49 -0400 From: Sam Roberts <sroberts@uniserve.com> To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Message-ID: <20050730001549.GA20744@ensemble.local> Mail-Followup-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] _ characters aren't allowed in field names, are they? X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:16:24 -0000 RFC2425: name = x-name / iana-token iana-token = 1*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") x-name = "x-" 1*(ALPHA / DIGIT / "-") ALPHA is defined in RFC 2234 as a-zA-Z. I'm wondering because I'm finding X-LOTUS-CHILD_UID in some calendars. The "lotus child" part is funny, but the _ is causing me to add this character to those accepted in for group and name. Anybody else seen this? Is it common? Sam -- Work is the curse of the climbing class. Return-Path: <adam@kde.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17B3C7F52E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3DDD142282 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 32581-07 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auriga.hrhansen.dk (cpe.atm2-0-1011003.0x503fc4de.odnxx6.customer.tele.dk [80.63.196.222]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CFE414227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:59:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 305125A09A; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:59:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B222457625; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:59:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from auriga.hrhansen.dk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (auriga [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14059-04; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:59:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.21] (p548D77BC.dip.t-dialin.net [84.141.119.188]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 286B44C5A2; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:59:35 +0200 (CEST) From: Till Adam <adam@kde.org> To: "Cameron Stillion" <camerost@exchange.microsoft.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 20:42:27 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.50 References: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1161257.Km6SgCa9yb"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507282042.29404.adam@kde.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kdab.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:06:41 -0700 Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:59:39 -0000 --nextPart1161257.Km6SgCa9yb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 28 July 2005 17:53, Cameron Stillion wrote: > I'm looking into this, but if you have ical samples with variously encoded > non-ascii characters, I'd be very happy to take attachments that will help > my investigation. Thanks, Cameron, and pleased to make your acquaintance. :) I've sent you an= =20 iTip invitation which is quoted-printable encoded utf8 and has various=20 umlauts in the CN paramter of the ATTENDEE property. Does that do? Till --nextPart1161257.Km6SgCa9yb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC6ScVtrsWGirveVsRAjUsAJ9GqbhmRgnRFCx2vKhRm9kUpHi+ugCfZDH5 vLj/qKURK3uTKjgIyu584VQ= =2B1P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1161257.Km6SgCa9yb-- Return-Path: <Arnaud.Quillaud@Sun.COM> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9284C7F530 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6517414227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31031-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brmea-mail-3.sun.com (brmea-mail-3.Sun.COM [192.18.98.34]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE470142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phys-edge-1.Central.Sun.COM ([129.147.156.54]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6SGDqvU026859 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from KONE-JHY8LIXZ2A.Sun.COM ([129.150.117.148]) by edge-mail1.Central.Sun.COM (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.02 (built Aug 25 2004)) with ESMTPA id <0IKC005E1IF0E110@edge-mail1.Central.Sun.COM> for ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:13:45 +0200 From: Arnaud Quillaud <Arnaud.Quillaud@Sun.COM> Subject: RE : [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field In-reply-to: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> To: Cameron Stillion <camerost@exchange.microsoft.com>, Helge Hess <helge.hess@opengroupware.org>, Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Message-id: <0IKC005E3IF1E110@edge-mail1.Central.Sun.COM> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Sun Outlook Connector 7.1.222.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=Windows-1252 Content-transfer-encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, Till Adam <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:13:53 -0000 I'm quite off topic here but from my experience, for the same event, iCal i= nvitations generated by Outlook + Exchange 2000 and above are usually corre= ct when invitations generated directly by Outlook XP/2003 (in IMAP+SMTP mod= e) are bogus (especially in terms of rescheduling e.g. Recurrence-id). Arnaud > -----Message d'origine----- > De : ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org=20 > [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] De la part de=20 > Cameron Stillion > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 28 juillet 2005 17:54 > =C0 : Helge Hess; Reinhold Kainhofer > Cc : ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Till Adam > Objet : RE: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field >=20 >=20 > I'm looking into this, but if you have ical samples with=20 > variously encoded non-ascii characters, I'd be very happy to=20 > take attachments that will help my investigation. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > cameron >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org=20 > [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of=20 > Helge Hess > Sent: Thursday.28.July.2005 07.40 > To: Reinhold Kainhofer > Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Till Adam > Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field >=20 > On Jul 28, 2005, at 16:03, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > >> Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the > >> invitation? > > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part > > itself) > > doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. >=20 > The encoding of the invitation is the encoding given in the=20 > mime-type of the mail message as for all text/* MIME types.=20 > In the case of Outlook 2002 this is: > ---snip--- > Content-Type: text/calendar; method=3DREQUEST; > =09charset=3D"utf-8" > ---snap--- > I'm not sure what takes precedence if no charset is specified=20 > (iCal default or MIME default), which is why you should=20 > always specify the encoding explicitly. >=20 > > The encoding of the message is the crucial thing here.=20 > Outlook doesn't > > like it if the message is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use=20 > umlauts at=20 > > all... >=20 > Don't know what you mean by that. If you can only use ASCII=20 > at the transport (as usual with SMTP) you would just need to=20 > apply some content-transfer encoding (QP or base64). >=20 > Notably OL 2002 uses 8bit: > ---snip--- > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > ---snap--- >=20 > >> Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook > >> where the organiser or an attendee's name contains=20 > non-ascii and see=20 > >> how Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is=20 > bad if the > > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. >=20 > I've tried with Outlook 2002 and it sends the CN, with one major bug. >=20 > It does both: >=20 > a) properly encode the CN in the To/From header > ---snip--- > From: "Guizmo G" <guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org> > To: "=3D?utf-8?B?SMO2bGdlIEhlw58=3D?=3D" <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> > ---snap--- > This is really base64 encoded UTF-8 (checked with recode). >=20 > b) embed the CN in the iCalendar request: > ---snip--- > BEGIN:VEVENT > ATTENDEE;CN=3D"H=F6lge He=DF > (helge.hess@opengroupware.org)";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE > :MAILTO:=20 > helge.hess@opengroupware.org=20 > ORGANIZER:MAILTO:guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org > ---snap--- > BUT: even though OL specifies the content to be UTF-8, it=20 > actually sends the iCalendar body in Latin-1 ... >=20 > So, how do you like that? ;-> >=20 > Greets, > Helge > -- > http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ > OpenGroupware.org >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-calsify mailing list > Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org=20 > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-calsify mailing list > Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org=20 > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify >=20 Return-Path: <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7B767F530 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDAA314227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27132-07 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mdlink.net (medusa.mdlink.de [213.211.192.34]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ABD4142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6836A31FEBF; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:03:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.126] (gw.skyrix.com [213.211.192.97]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BD431F745; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:03:10 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> References: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-2-378136988 Message-Id: <28bba520eddc7b6ce918d879228a05b8@opengroupware.org> From: Helge Hess <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 18:05:41 +0200 To: "Cameron Stillion" <camerost@exchange.microsoft.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:04:40 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2-378136988 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On Jul 28, 2005, at 17:53, Cameron Stillion wrote: > I'm looking into this, but if you have ical samples with variously=20 > encoded non-ascii characters, I'd be very happy to take attachments=20 > that will help my investigation. Attached is a .zip containing one meeting request sent by OL 2002=20 (incorrect body encoding) and another one with Evolution 2.0 (proper=20 UTF-8 encoding). The CN with umlauts used is "H=F6lge He=DF" In HTML entity encoding: "Hölge Heß" --Apple-Mail-2-378136988 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/zip; x-unix-mode=0644; name="iCal-invites.zip" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=iCal-invites.zip UEsDBBQACAAIADOQ/DIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYABAAaUNhbC1pbnZpdGUtYnktZXZvMjAuZW1sVVgM AGIB6UJiAelCaQDMALWV63KbRhTHP4en2Mkne+pFgIUkViEOhpVEh1tgpYmc6WiwtJZoELhc5Lgv 07foC+TFetDFtziNm2k+aXdZnfM7/3PZkFd1keEgrlYEvVnxNIkzcfUuXvIsL3C6iK/F/JpnyyKv r2/igot5sXwrhHzOkw1fEHRV5Gu0jpP062vo6GOdJZ9Rmc8/8eq3Y+HV5e32Kjoyb4u6RBtFlEVZ xXaw6WCLX4JrvD+SbvJ8cQtr6RjdJNUKOS4L+oit6hOk9NCvdYoUSVKR3CFqh8gK+kWCvfABRwnf cIJMd4y2S6SIylPcNJ/H6SovK3T0DfKPinwqKjKgaADUlh/APxdnc77npBGACq+SBTI7Wq99ag4M VfsuOChCI3b8Yl2fx3sS1zNRoKN4HW+ScoEzfnOCrvOiQrIkKW0wcI+PgF7pqqqCpd6Poi/y5Twv +KmYZGL56bZIPotzOD5a3jzcPiLUuj8ic0/pdUFmqpyaL2aN6svf+bwiqOIgVr1O47oqhQFwE/R6 tOuB0euXtwPLCdLP7MjHvZ6qYfns/dlIH3TSJZ+NuG4NzvStrSUXV7ws331t4UR4NayTP9c5GqI3 y+1KXH7Pq5lnFc8qzG6veRPK56oF+efZIi76KIvXXD9sxWRe9tF8FRclr/S6usKQV5eykW/pIX0/ BlEEK67AyrcElPcN5gI/YGEb8vxGlhVF7ShqVxYVTVW6oiTOwW367vnkvxXcZM3xhBdlkmcEQXND w7qQVF4QRDd5WlfwATpWEtvoaPuD28foPtAizsorXmCazfNFki0J6l0mFRiZJDBPcDSPs6ypQKih GKWcV6jcHhViMxmu4zWOqriqS4K8/AStkqrUcVvUUBUvl3wxiy/zDdexpmmihAr+R50UfKGrsGnq pNTPjSmNZpIE2RoHAQ1NI6IzVZp11YN5ByZOSpAgnNOh7ZGJaTjUs4xQgEXUbMgwpEM/tA1PCELf si2CW60PyRrKrNXyfC8aus4DKcx9Alst6gkTGka27xEQRtgljxySt3fHbJde+B4V2AVYbpX5VdWU S1nViyRviqblp2WezSCTsiydSjO1ResCSqt1zos0ySAMxzax45sGazw9/rhzYhlTxx6OGPjwB4OI skHou+QXCcbI3RHzya5c2IVnuJSY2wJjETNCRmStK0mnisaaG3AnDMegywBC0afUCJ1p3/YYDSeG o8v98yn407EcjWHp+h4b6acCSHqPsaMC043O1lMq5SmV/JDqMZQsKSoDVX4ESpa2VHcYzeY+Hfv0 0An1mDCG1DStJXWVHpPbaltRLjD0T0fCitSGVVuTsHzXQztEN3j0n44sXRzY+02y9f+ebCKgvUmI WttGbTHg/j/sydLWHgsNLwqIHxhQpkLUFKtnUqII0dh1jXBKHs3fu7KDLixQteIFFywamaEdbI9T XpXwriDoeNMxoogE43MoV8EPh4ZnX9Cwb3r6YXoT17AdyPjLRrhgsCZ0SvvmmE0DqtueZU9sa2w4 /dB3aDMlcQBi26YdGB7rN2tQn+mGadKAUasvoDCaBDoLx/QhR98xvOHYGFKdZwcmAf1sKo9SK8KG 2ej2FdmXv+ElQiP+5a/n4P7tnfo5QIeX73mpXvYa7hpu12Db5d3kFf4BUEsHCPaloYDKBAAA4goA AFBLAwQUAAgACAA5kPwyAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGQAQAGlDYWwtaW52aXRlLWJ5LU9MMjAwMi5lbWxV WAwAbgHpQm4B6UJpAMwApVZdc5tGFH02v2JHkwe5MXhBwnw4ioOAyHSERAGpceKOB8FaIkasuyxW 1If+1f6LPveC5MaO08STotFw9+7XPefce4eQ8JqVYpDwlYleLev8jzWVlm+SJSkpE4ssuZXoLSmX jNa3m4QRibLlayEkKcnvSGaia0bXaJ3kxdNlqPuhLvNPqKLpDeG/HQoHi227FHXtLasrdKdIsiSr ohfcnYgOWeRJKe5deENptgUbH6JNzldo7MfBKYpX9RFSdPRzXSAFYxXJJ6asmn2MXmIYC+/EKCd3 xES2P0OtiRRJ+TLcgqZJsaIVR93/iPyDIvckRYZQDAioLz8I/ms4G/8+TjeCQFGeoZ6tnQx79ltL k4WDa8rQqxUplkRakap685TS72ID0twoPnw29V9H8AX0rwBF3WSd3OVVJpZkc4RuKeNIxljpwwGP Ecq6ovZFrKNnoBMOfgxedbNl+adNXio3qLvcSLuxlMLUo9AN7QckcvSerbYS4f8lUc94jOEtRG6i zqgtJjTqPL+uYgr7Bmc1vxb1s+FZ5E+VxSgrPHdVbFR9cDbofCdGIaoXH0nKTRQTEJnWvKD0BuVp JTgJh8J4CkEzZQNQ7CvIh3MhSNFzoB3g5pFT1ejp2ouFpuoLHeMXqYZxoqf4zQNxXgu+57vinLAq p6WJoHAFm5aclFyMt7dwMSef+DEkHymzhJ2iNeErmg1C95cZcAb5ka4SVhE+6LTgO593s6SsrgkT 3TKlWV4uTaQvcg6lHrCcspxvTdRD3Qll66Q4BLcf+aD1g9ndVDMDfsJM5OcpoxW95mi64+cIDeu8 gIzGEpaUE/lE8NZN4idlSh7uz9dkOnZNFDCa1SnJ0HD74LD9NJqrkoqlvqpARe2a0jyHdidGaVKW TWZDmiaoIISjqnUxqWlct8lajHjC66q58gitcl4NRDgI8WS5JNlVsqB3ZCAahiFhxMjvdc5INlBh wEHrajC0LtzoCstHwsHYCkfu1bn77gjNgsANbStyrxT1SsX3N42hNxYmEoShO/Im5ty2xu7EsUIh CKcOiC8eH39GZlMGdCQcpD0+3nPWkoUa1R0vPD52J8LcDSNvOjEV0N534/OpY+7lvb/EnbuTWLDi GK5y3VN7Muic/w3ZjM7JX6j7rcQ+7JyGwG2TL2JghbFne4E1iU/DaB4M4nDmmr7ljeOp+a1DhGk4 sibeeze8X/28uhScOIrhUrMpGKwpRoxPmsp4DxOA5IFb77Xu8dS24oaKDJJIiENrEgXmNLCADCFq KJnYromFGfCM+22RYR0OceGt9W11qMlYtnQFxjrePxo2XM3QLEM3oGlhGX/xgENArWU4Q8Nx1KGt qkM87DsG7suaAn9D0zW9r+/Q+MF92Hosq7Ih9wGNG9mhF7SRvyc5NJG3DF7J8hJahiE1PSPfNQ2s mxiLMjZ70PRGfvwSy+A4FBCy1hUnLEvWsGdIWJGXO6N5hbTxRhy+B1a0aOxfc1JKl+WUcRP2Nmxd lpflT38++TXuMeEV9A0Ca4Ro5vtWeGE+6XJB6E1DL74wVcEeW1FkBrPh2LPvM9CCyvBBEW80giwQ A8DuC5bdQna8KBhbF49oCMk6LzPChEbn/e7W3KVya/5bOsI/UEsHCBf+BwPCBAAATQkAAFBLAQIV AxQACAAIADOQ/DL2paGAygQAAOIKAAAYAAwAAAAAAAAAAECkgQAAAABpQ2FsLWludml0ZS1ieS1l dm8yMC5lbWxVWAgAYgHpQmIB6UJQSwECFQMUAAgACAA5kPwyF/4HA8IEAABNCQAAGQAMAAAAAAAA AABApIEgBQAAaUNhbC1pbnZpdGUtYnktT0wyMDAyLmVtbFVYCABuAelCbgHpQlBLBQYAAAAAAgAC AKUAAAA5CgAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-2-378136988 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org --Apple-Mail-2-378136988-- Return-Path: <camerost@exchange.microsoft.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5FC87F530 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA9E214227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30384-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.3.124]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A16F142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout1.microsoft.com ([157.54.1.117]) by mail2.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:55:59 -0700 Received: from red-hub-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.2.25]) by mailout1.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:55:59 -0700 Received: from df-hub-01.exchange.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.8.109]) by red-hub-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:55:59 -0700 Received: from DF-SCRUFFY-BHD.Exchange.Microsoft.com ([157.54.54.216]) by df-hub-01.exchange.corp.microsoft.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:53:42 -0700 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 x-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jul 2005 15:53:42.0288 (UTC) FILETIME=[8732B900:01C5938C] Subject: RE: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:53:57 -0700 Message-ID: <6B5F25B9F515B744B97F1B6E99AC9F590DE17E@DF-SCRUFFY-MSG.exchange.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Thread-Index: AcWTgcXy80dm1pwkQye7iUGbZQ5hHAACnDig From: "Cameron Stillion" <camerost@exchange.microsoft.com> To: "Helge Hess" <helge.hess@opengroupware.org>, "Reinhold Kainhofer" <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, Till Adam <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:56:01 -0000 I'm looking into this, but if you have ical samples with variously = encoded non-ascii characters, I'd be very happy to take attachments that = will help my investigation. Thanks, cameron -----Original Message----- From: ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org = [mailto:ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org] On Behalf Of Helge Hess Sent: Thursday.28.July.2005 07.40 To: Reinhold Kainhofer Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org; Till Adam Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field On Jul 28, 2005, at 16:03, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: >> Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the=20 >> invitation? > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part > itself) > doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The encoding of the invitation is the encoding given in the mime-type of = the mail message as for all text/* MIME types. In the case of Outlook = 2002 this is: ---snip--- Content-Type: text/calendar; method=3DREQUEST; charset=3D"utf-8" ---snap--- I'm not sure what takes precedence if no charset is specified (iCal = default or MIME default), which is why you should always specify the = encoding explicitly. > The encoding of the message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't = > like it if the message is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at = > all... Don't know what you mean by that. If you can only use ASCII at the = transport (as usual with SMTP) you would just need to apply some = content-transfer encoding (QP or base64). Notably OL 2002 uses 8bit: ---snip--- Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---snap--- >> Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook=20 >> where the organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see=20 >> how Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the = > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. I've tried with Outlook 2002 and it sends the CN, with one major bug. It does both: a) properly encode the CN in the To/From header ---snip--- From: "Guizmo G" <guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org> To: "=3D?utf-8?B?SMO2bGdlIEhlw58=3D?=3D" <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> ---snap--- This is really base64 encoded UTF-8 (checked with recode). b) embed the CN in the iCalendar request: ---snip--- BEGIN:VEVENT ATTENDEE;CN=3D"H=F6lge He=DF (helge.hess@opengroupware.org)";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO= :=20 helge.hess@opengroupware.org ORGANIZER:MAILTO:guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org ---snap--- BUT: even though OL specifies the content to be UTF-8, it actually sends = the iCalendar body in Latin-1 ... So, how do you like that? ;-> Greets, Helge -- http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org _______________________________________________ Ietf-calsify mailing list Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify Return-Path: <dinaras@cnri.reston.va.us> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92B9A7F527; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3C014227E; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 30793-01; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:50:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1421142275; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:50:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA06937; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:50:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200507281550.LAA06937@ietf.org> From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce@ietf.org Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:50:50 -0400 Sender: dinaras@cnri.reston.va.us X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [Ietf-calsify] WG Action: Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification (calsify) X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:50:56 -0000 A new IETF working group has been formed in the Application Area. For additional information, please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. +++ Calendaring and Scheduling Standards Simplification (calsify) ============================================================= Current Status: Active Working Group Chair(s): Lisa Dusseault <lisa@osafoundation.org> Aki Niemi <aki.niemi@nokia.com> Applications Area Director(s): Ted Hardie <hardie@qualcomm.com> Scott Hollenbeck <sah@428cobrajet.net> Applications Area Advisor: Ted Hardie <hardie@qualcomm.com> Mailing Lists: General Discussion: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org To Subscribe: http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify Archive: http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify/ Description of Working Group: The Calendaring and Scheduling standards, defined in RFC's 2445, 2446, and 2447 were released in November 1998, and further described in RFC 3283. They were designed to progress the level of interoperability between dissimilar calendaring and scheduling systems. The Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification, iCalendar, succeeded in establishing itself as the common format for exchanging calendaring information across the Internet. On the other hand, only basic interoperability as been achieved between different scheduling systems. The Calsify working group is chartered to: (1) Publish the interoperability issues that have arisen between calendaring and scheduling systems, as well as document the usage of iCalendar by other specifications. (2) Revise the Calendaring and Scheduling standards to advance the state of interoperable calendaring and scheduling by addressing the published interoperability issues. As far as it is possible, the working group will ensure backwards compatibility with widely deployed implementations and other specifications that use it. (3) Clarify the registration process for iCalendar extensions (i.e., the current core object specification only provides a template to register new properties). (4) Advance the Calendaring and Scheduling standards to Draft Standard. (5) Work on transition (upgrade or versioning) mechanisms for calendar data exchange. Proposing an XML representation or transformation of iCalendar objects is out of the scope of this working group. Goals and Milestones: Jul 05 Submit draft documenting interoperability issues for use in progressing RFCs to Draft Standard. Sep 05 Submit iCalendar bis draft 00, with formatting changes from RFC2445. Sep 05 Submit iTIP bis draft 00 Sep 05 Submit iMIP bis draft 00 Oct 05 Submit revised interoperability issues draft version based on WG discussion. Dec 05 WG decision on what document(s) require transition mechanisms and hopefully rough idea what these will look like (and add new goals if needed) Mar 06 WG last call on interoperability issues draft. May 06 Submit interoperability issues document to IESG for Informational RFC. May 06 Submit version of iCalendar bis draft that addresses known interoperability issues from interop events. Jun 06 Submit versions of iTIP and iMIP that address known interoprability issues. Jul 06 Submit version of iCalendar draft that addresses WG open discussions. Sep 06 Submit version of iCalendar draft ready for WG last call. Nov 06 Complete WG last call of iCalendar and submit new draft. Nov 06 Submit versions of iTIP and iMIP ready for last call. Jan 07 Submit iCalendar (bis) to IESG for Draft Standard. Jan 07 Complete WG last call of iTIP Feb 07 Complete WG last call of iMIP Mar 07 Submit iTIP to IESG for Draft Standard. Apr 07 Submit iMIP to IESG for Draft Standard. Return-Path: <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A19CD7F531 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8158114227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28412-05 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.mdlink.net (medusa.mdlink.de [213.211.192.34]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCFAA142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFC1D319568; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:37:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.126] (gw.skyrix.com [213.211.192.97]) by mail.mdlink.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8920031938F; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:37:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v622) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <be2ab57dfced95308440caf1bde62557@opengroupware.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Helge Hess <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:39:54 +0200 To: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.622) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, Till Adam <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:38:53 -0000 On Jul 28, 2005, at 16:03, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: >> Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the =20 >> invitation? > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part =20 > itself) > doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The encoding of the invitation is the encoding given in the mime-type =20= of the mail message as for all text/* MIME types. In the case of =20 Outlook 2002 this is: ---snip--- Content-Type: text/calendar; method=3DREQUEST; charset=3D"utf-8" ---snap--- I'm not sure what takes precedence if no charset is specified (iCal =20 default or MIME default), which is why you should always specify the =20 encoding explicitly. > The encoding of the message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't = =20 > like it if the message is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at = =20 > all... Don't know what you mean by that. If you can only use ASCII at the =20 transport (as usual with SMTP) you would just need to apply some =20 content-transfer encoding (QP or base64). Notably OL 2002 uses 8bit: ---snip--- Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ---snap--- >> Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook =20 >> where the organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see =20= >> how Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the = =20 > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. I've tried with Outlook 2002 and it sends the CN, with one major bug. It does both: a) properly encode the CN in the To/=46rom header ---snip--- From: "Guizmo G" <guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org> To: "=3D?utf-8?B?SMO2bGdlIEhlw58=3D?=3D" <helge.hess@opengroupware.org> ---snap--- This is really base64 encoded UTF-8 (checked with recode). b) embed the CN in the iCalendar request: ---snip--- BEGIN:VEVENT ATTENDEE;CN=3D"H=F6lge He=DF =20 (helge.hess@opengroupware.org)";ROLE=3DREQ-PARTICIPANT;RSVP=3DTRUE:MAILTO:= =20 helge.hess@opengroupware.org ORGANIZER:MAILTO:guizmo.g@agenor-ldap.opengroupware.org ---snap--- BUT: even though OL specifies the content to be UTF-8, it actually =20 sends the iCalendar body in Latin-1 ... So, how do you like that? ;-> Greets, Helge --=20 http://docs.opengroupware.org/Members/helge/ OpenGroupware.org Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81D9A7F532 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D624142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29123-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE70614225E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ninevah.cyrusoft.com (ninevah.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.9]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6SDdcuG028361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:39:39 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:13:38 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: Till Adam <adam@kde.org>, Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Message-ID: <6978206B70A45A56B6994FCB@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <200507281554.20547.adam@kde.org> References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <200507281554.20547.adam@kde.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:13:52 -0000 Hi Till, --On July 28, 2005 3:54:16 PM +0200 Till Adam <adam@kde.org> wrote: >> Till can give you the details (he's the kmail guy). > > Right, this issue is not about charsets, it's about transfer encoding. > The characters are proper utf8, and the mime header states that > correctly. But as soon as non-7bit characters are detected in a mail, we > send it using either quoted-printable or 8bit content transfer encoding, > depending on a user config setting. That seems to throw OL. > Interestingly umlauts in the summary, which also trigger the same > q.p./8bit content transfer encoding behavior seem to be parsed without > problems, by OL. Well I guess at this point we need someone from Microsoft to step in and explain what's happening... -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <adam@kde.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437587F532 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BFB0142255 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:11:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29097-08 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from auriga.hrhansen.dk (cpe.atm2-0-1011003.0x503fc4de.odnxx6.customer.tele.dk [80.63.196.222]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F8F142250 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AAD15B15A; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:11:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23FCE599EB; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:11:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from auriga.hrhansen.dk ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (auriga [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 28407-02; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:10:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.21] (p548D77BC.dip.t-dialin.net [84.141.119.188]) by auriga.hrhansen.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id B71EA5B0DF; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:10:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Till Adam <adam@kde.org> To: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:54:16 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.50 References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> In-Reply-To: <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1537095.aWErRGCecB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507281554.20547.adam@kde.org> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at kdab.net X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:06:41 -0700 Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:11:10 -0000 --nextPart1537095.aWErRGCecB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 28 July 2005 16:03, Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > On Thursday 28 July 2005 15:49, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > > <reinhold@kainhofer.com> wrote: > > > AFAICS, rfc 2445 allows special characters like the German Umlaute > > > =D6=C4=DC=F6=E4=FC=DF in the CN field of the organizer or the attend= ee (since > > > iCalendar is UTF-8 by default). Is this correct? Or am I wrong in my > > > interpretation of the rfc here? > > > Now, the problem is that Outlook 2003 refuses to accept any such > > > invitation if the CN of an attendee or the organizer contains Umlaut= s. > > > > Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the > > invitation? > > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part itself) > doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The encoding of the > message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't like it if the message > is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at all... > > Till can give you the details (he's the kmail guy). Right, this issue is not about charsets, it's about transfer encoding. The= =20 characters are proper utf8, and the mime header states that correctly. But = as=20 soon as non-7bit characters are detected in a mail, we send it using either= =20 quoted-printable or 8bit content transfer encoding, depending on a user=20 config setting. That seems to throw OL. Interestingly umlauts in the summar= y,=20 which also trigger the same q.p./8bit content transfer encoding behavior se= em=20 to be parsed without problems, by OL. > > Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook where > > the organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see how > > Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. And it's also what I would very much like to avoid being forced into=20 duplicating, in Kontact. Cheerio, Till (Please keep me in CC, I'm not on the list, thanks) --nextPart1537095.aWErRGCecB Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC6OOMtrsWGirveVsRAqOxAKCVvPhEtY2iM4i7LJ+fBfWnDQb7gACcCPmB tg9HM7SbycIK2ri86BiHAis= =q2FV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1537095.aWErRGCecB-- Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472087F532 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3020E142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29615-08 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C123814227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ninevah.cyrusoft.com (ninevah.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.9]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6SDX9uG028283 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:33:10 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:07:09 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Message-ID: <9EB2C09C457B38B7F9407B6E@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, "Adam, Till" <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:07:31 -0000 Hi Reinhold, --On July 28, 2005 4:03:21 PM +0200 Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> wrote: >> Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the >> invitation? > > Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part > itself) doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The > encoding of the message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't like > it if the message is 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at all... You are sending the iCal data via email, right? In which case what, if any, charset parameter is listed on the Content-Type header of the MIME part containing the iCal data? > Till can give you the details (he's the kmail guy). > >> Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook where >> the organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see how >> Outlook 'exports' that to iCalendar? > > Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the > email address doesn't tell you the name of the person. Hmm, OK. >> I think this issue clearly sure that we need an area of interop dealing >> with non-ascii characters to verify proper handling of those in all >> products. > > Yes, definitely. -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 884387F531 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71DF2142282 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29807-01 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD57142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at (reinhold@curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.116]) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6SE3MSE002934; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:03:24 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: FAM, Vienna University of Technology To: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 16:03:21 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.50 References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart2233818.dWH67tQ1uh"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507281603.21957.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, "Adam, Till" <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:03:33 -0000 --nextPart2233818.dWH67tQ1uh Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 28 July 2005 15:49, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Reinhold, > <reinhold@kainhofer.com> wrote: > > > > AFAICS, rfc 2445 allows special characters like the German Umlaute > > =C3=96=C3=84=C3=9C=C3=B6=C3=A4=C3=BC=C3=9F in the CN field of the orga= nizer or the attendee (since > > iCalendar is UTF-8 by default). Is this correct? Or am I wrong in my > > interpretation of the rfc here? > > Now, the problem is that Outlook 2003 refuses to accept any such > > invitation if the CN of an attendee or the organizer contains Umlauts. > > Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the invitatio= n? Sorry, I don't understand this. The invitation (the iCalendar part itself)= =20 doesn't list any encoding, it's by default in utf-8. The encoding of the=20 message is the crucial thing here. Outlook doesn't like it if the message i= s=20 8bit, but with 7bit you can't use umlauts at all... Till can give you the details (he's the kmail guy). > Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook where t= he > organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see how Outlook > 'exports' that to iCalendar? Outlook simply doesn't send the CN in that case... Which is bad if the emai= l=20 address doesn't tell you the name of the person. > I think this issue clearly sure that we need an area of interop dealing > with non-ascii characters to verify proper handling of those in all > products. Yes, definitely. Cheers, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.a= t/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer --nextPart2233818.dWH67tQ1uh Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC6OWpTqjEwhXvPN0RAgx/AJ93nbNZlm0FSGpOcgwllqtfgWqipgCgn6r6 QOwDRzqXp8BfkpTLhT6I8z8= =JYLJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart2233818.dWH67tQ1uh-- Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C667F52F for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C962142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27354-08 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3207414227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 06:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ninevah.cyrusoft.com (ninevah.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.9]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6SDFguG027836 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:15:42 -0400 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:49:41 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com>, ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field Message-ID: <3F6AD60475D718D62BB43BBE@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> References: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Adam, Till" <adam@kde.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:49:54 -0000 Hi Reinhold, --On July 28, 2005 12:44:49 PM +0200 Reinhold Kainhofer=20 <reinhold@kainhofer.com> wrote: > It may be a bit off-topic, but still, since here are all you guys who > might also have had this problem: > > AFAICS, rfc 2445 allows special characters like the German Umlaute > =C3=96=C3=84=C3=9C=C3=B6=C3=A4=C3=BC=C3=9F in the CN field of the = organizer or the attendee (since > iCalendar is UTF-8 by default). Is this correct? Or am I wrong in my > interpretation of the rfc here? > Now, the problem is that Outlook 2003 refuses to accept any such > invitation if the CN of an attendee or the organizer contains Umlauts. Are you absolutely sure that the utf-8 charset is listed on the invitation? > Now, clearly you want the name of the attendee in your event (only the > email alone doesn't really tell you anything if the email is > e0123456@stud.univie.ac.at or the like), but you also want outlook to > accept your invitations. Does anyone know if there is any way (i.e. > using a different encoding, somehow escaping the special letters, etc.) > to make outlook accept the invitation, while still staying rfc-compliant > and keep interopability of iTIP with other clients? > Or is the only way to send out invitations with the CN omitted if the > name contains special letters? I know for a fact that my implementation treats the text in CN as text=20 without any special encoding etc. So if there were an encoding that worked=20 with Outlook (e.g. MIME header style encoding) that would certainly break=20 my client, and I suspect many others. Have you tried doing the reverse? i.e. create an event in Outlook where the = organiser or an attendee's name contains non-ascii and see how Outlook=20 'exports' that to iCalendar? I think this issue clearly sure that we need an area of interop dealing=20 with non-ascii characters to verify proper handling of those in all=20 products. --=20 Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67777F52A for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFFCE142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 17864-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4166514227E for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at (reinhold@curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.116]) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6SAisoO020997; Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:44:56 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: FAM, Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:44:49 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart15838925.t59Ckn63bY"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507281244.54296.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR X-Spam-Level: Cc: "Adam, Till" <adam@kde.org> Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Umlaute in Organizer field X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:45:03 -0000 --nextPart15838925.t59Ckn63bY Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi guys, It may be a bit off-topic, but still, since here are all you guys who might= =20 also have had this problem: AFAICS, rfc 2445 allows special characters like the German Umlaute =D6=C4= =DC=F6=E4=FC=DF in=20 the CN field of the organizer or the attendee (since iCalendar is UTF-8 by= =20 default). Is this correct? Or am I wrong in my interpretation of the rfc=20 here? Now, the problem is that Outlook 2003 refuses to accept any such invitation= if=20 the CN of an attendee or the organizer contains Umlauts.=20 Now, clearly you want the name of the attendee in your event (only the emai= l=20 alone doesn't really tell you anything if the email is=20 e0123456@stud.univie.ac.at or the like), but you also want outlook to accep= t=20 your invitations. Does anyone know if there is any way (i.e. using a=20 different encoding, somehow escaping the special letters, etc.) to make=20 outlook accept the invitation, while still staying rfc-compliant and keep=20 interopability of iTIP with other clients? Or is the only way to send out invitations with the CN omitted if the name= =20 contains special letters? Thanks a lot, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.a= t/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer --nextPart15838925.t59Ckn63bY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC6LcmTqjEwhXvPN0RAnN3AJ98YD3RTl0Hva4nqjkmcpgph2HGIwCghgHp KIXT1IS67XRzf3SaYBWdmZA= =t7r3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart15838925.t59Ckn63bY-- Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AB3F7F517 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B63214228D for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12537-08 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AF2A14228C for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 06:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at (reinhold@curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.116]) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6PD5AJ3019435 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:05:12 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: FAM, Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 15:05:10 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.50 References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> <200507220133.55578.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <42E03D57.5060806@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42E03D57.5060806@Royer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1657627.dDexMl2kzj"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507251505.10620.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:05:16 -0000 --nextPart1657627.dDexMl2kzj Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 22 July 2005 02:27, Doug Royer wrote: > Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > > Am Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 01:15 schrieb John W Noerenberg II: > >>At 6:03 PM -0400 7/21/05, Robert_Ransdell@notesdev.ibm.com wrote: > >>>4.6.5 Time Zone Component > >>>The "VTIMEZONE" calendar component MUST be present if the iCalendar > >>> object contains an RRULE that generates dates on both sides of a time > >>> zone shift > > And that single sentence goes on to say "... (e.g. both in > Standard Time and Daylight Saving Time) unless the iCalendar > object intends to convey a floating time (See the > section "4.1.10.11 Time" for proper interpretation of floating time). Oops, I blame my carelessness on the time (1:30 am...). > > Actually, this is not really correct. If the DTSTART is a DATE value > > (i.e. no time attached), the TZID is not necessary (so it's not dates on > > both sides, but rather times on both sides). > > I do not think that a DATE or DATE-TIME value is what makes TZID > optional. Reading up a bit on the old mailing list archive, it came up every now and= =20 then that an event with only a DATE value is really meant as whole day,=20 without a time associated. See e.g. your own post: http://www.imc.org/ietf-calendar/archive1/msg03650.html But yes, that's only one aspect.: > So if you want it relative to a TZID, specify=20 > a TZID and include a VTIMEZONE, else specify it in UTC which has > no time zone shifts, or floating in which case it can be variable length > (as seen by the wall clock to the observer). Right, DATE events seem to need the same settings as timed events. Thanks f= or=20 pointing this out. All three situations (UTC, relative to TZID or floating)= =20 also make sense for DATE events... Cheers, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.a= t/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer --nextPart1657627.dDexMl2kzj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC5OOGTqjEwhXvPN0RAg6rAJwMUojkepLWvLdQIWYTAR2hq2Q/IgCg0+nK 2jX4cU24dSu7OezNWjLKUS4= =xAX5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1657627.dDexMl2kzj-- Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC0B7F541 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C6A1422C1 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:30:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01533-10 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327B81422BF for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:30:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6M0To7b017815 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:29:57 -0700 Message-ID: <42E03DFE.5050507@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:29:50 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> In-Reply-To: <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030100090706030204020405" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:30:02 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030100090706030204020405 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030004030906050306030009" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030004030906050306030009 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would agree that RDATE would follow the same rules as RRULE. John W Noerenberg II wrote: > > Yes, this is true. I didn't make myself clear. If an iCalendar object > contains no VEVENT, VTODO, or VJOURNAL components that includes an > RRULE, then a VTIMEZONE object isn't required. But what about an object > with an RDATE that spans a time zone shift? Better here would be: > > [Line 1758 of 2445bis]: ...contains an RRULE or RDATE that generates.... > > EXDATEs and EXRULEs con only occur if there's a recurrence rule, so > perhaps there's no need to mention them. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------030004030906050306030009 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 02220-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA651422B4 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6M0R4eW017773 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:27:12 -0700 Message-ID: <42E03D57.5060806@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 18:27:03 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> <200507220133.55578.reinhold@kainhofer.com> In-Reply-To: <200507220133.55578.reinhold@kainhofer.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060604020205090001090309" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 00:27:25 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060604020205090001090309 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000900090400080701010006" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000900090400080701010006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reinhold Kainhofer wrote: > Am Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 01:15 schrieb John W Noerenberg II: > >>At 6:03 PM -0400 7/21/05, Robert_Ransdell@notesdev.ibm.com wrote: >> >>>4.6.5 Time Zone Component >>>The "VTIMEZONE" calendar component MUST be present if the iCalendar >>> object contains an RRULE that generates dates on both sides of a time >>> zone shift And that single sentence goes on to say "... (e.g. both in Standard Time and Daylight Saving Time) unless the iCalendar object intends to convey a floating time (See the section "4.1.10.11 Time" for proper interpretation of floating time). > Actually, this is not really correct. If the DTSTART is a DATE value (i.e. no > time attached), the TZID is not necessary (so it's not dates on both sides, > but rather times on both sides). I do not think that a DATE or DATE-TIME value is what makes TZID optional. That is just another form of floating VEVENT. The problem is the same one that was part of the DTEND/DURATION debate. How long and how much space in time do you block out for that instance on your user interface? If the time shifts, some local times may be 23, 24, or 25 hours in length for an instance. So if you want it relative to a TZID, specify a TZID and include a VTIMEZONE, else specify it in UTC which has no time zone shifts, or floating in which case it can be variable length (as seen by the wall clock to the observer). -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------000900090400080701010006 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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10024) with ESMTP id 03082-04 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D57221422AF for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:34:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from einstein (chello062178130194.6.13.tuwien.teleweb.at [62.178.130.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6LNY4ZL007275 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:34:06 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:33:52 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.1 References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> In-Reply-To: <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> X-Face: ")c{Au:m/NOF(f35rjhcBt1!6qS-QGbQ@)W]oPwD`8voekiB@|F0@FgDr"S@=?utf-8?q?=5Bim*un0=5D=3A6=0A=09WH1B=24e675u=7CE/oiWJ=26=23=25?=>=M,iFa%U='hgdU@#oEH`JO8QJ6!29O?M+YO'q6'>=?utf-8?q?=26/Sva=7BkUd=0A=09uq9J13?=)"5^; &~-%==D; W']zE[VP/OuP9l(.$"7cDh\0j2<f)la8Am>}1uNY6HQ:!n)=?utf-8?q?3=5D0j=0A=09drSp?=@(cji7\N<?(YT/~]m\'|SOi,asY<!?uOSj2I*sfMyf; dnv4Hnbq#)=?utf-8?q?W=5Fm53=7Ca=5E7=60=24=5FX=0A=09k=2513=5E4=3AO=27=3Du=7C=7D?=<E9Cm@},g`JDvR2$vX])7{_.\7A+t]qI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1185921.PA627UXsCt"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507220133.55578.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:34:09 -0000 --nextPart1185921.PA627UXsCt Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Am Freitag, 22. Juli 2005 01:15 schrieb John W Noerenberg II: > At 6:03 PM -0400 7/21/05, Robert_Ransdell@notesdev.ibm.com wrote: > >4.6.5 Time Zone Component > >The "VTIMEZONE" calendar component MUST be present if the iCalendar > > object contains an RRULE that generates dates on both sides of a time > > zone shift Actually, this is not really correct. If the DTSTART is a DATE value (i.e. = no=20 time attached), the TZID is not necessary (so it's not dates on both sides,= =20 but rather times on both sides). Also notice that if DTSTART is given in UTC, there are no time zone shifts,= so=20 a VTIMEZONE doesn't have to be present in that case. > Yes, this is true. I didn't make myself clear. If an iCalendar > object contains no VEVENT, VTODO, or VJOURNAL components that > includes an RRULE, then a VTIMEZONE object isn't required. But what > about an object with an RDATE that spans a time zone shift? =20 Depends on which format you use for the RDATE. Again, the three different w= ays=20 to represent times in iCalendar (as described by Doug) come into play. Only= =20 if the RDATE is relative to a time zone, then the VTIMEZONE is important. Cheers, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer / KPilot maintain= er --nextPart1185921.PA627UXsCt Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC4DDjTqjEwhXvPN0RAurLAJ0ZPD6iUYORlhMvJWL3nUNXO1KxMACgoE/G jtMTbMOYV0xawIhsIAp0dbA= =TcxB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1185921.PA627UXsCt-- Return-Path: <jwn2@qualcomm.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AEE57F558 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1591422BE for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00632-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com (numenor.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E18F1422B8 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j6LNGlo7003158 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.77.33] (valinor.qualcomm.com [129.46.77.33]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j6LNGhRr025410 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:16:44 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p07000c03bf05d1ffca2e@[129.46.77.33]> In-Reply-To: <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> User-Agent: eudora623carbon-0606081134 X-PGP-RSA-Fingerprint: EA53 01A6 C076 F9C2 09E8 9480 645A 8857 X-PGP-DH-Fingerprint: 4F5E 56C9 BD4D 0227 331F 6AEE 9590 24F9 6FD7 04F8 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:15:50 -0700 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org From: John W Noerenberg II <jwn2@qualcomm.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1090134691==_ma============" X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 23:16:51 -0000 --============_-1090134691==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 4:01 PM -0600 7/21/05, Doug Royer wrote: >If an entry is tied to a time zone, a TZID and an associated >VTIMEZONE MUST BE included. DTSTART;TZID=PST;20050101T000000 starts >at midnight New Years Day in the PST time zone and a PST VTIMEZONE >MUST BE included. > >So a VTIMEZONE is only supplied when any DATE or DATE-TIME >value includes a TZID parameter. [or as Robert notes below... - jwn2] Ah. Very clear, Doug. Thank you! > >And yes, some vendors are not 2445/2446/2447 compliant. I'm shocked. Shocked! :-) At 6:03 PM -0400 7/21/05, Robert_Ransdell@notesdev.ibm.com wrote: >4.6.5 Time Zone Component >The "VTIMEZONE" calendar component MUST be present if the iCalendar > object contains an RRULE that generates dates on both sides of a time > zone shift Yes, this is true. I didn't make myself clear. If an iCalendar object contains no VEVENT, VTODO, or VJOURNAL components that includes an RRULE, then a VTIMEZONE object isn't required. But what about an object with an RDATE that spans a time zone shift? Better here would be: [Line 1758 of 2445bis]: ...contains an RRULE or RDATE that generates.... EXDATEs and EXRULEs con only occur if there's a recurrence rule, so perhaps there's no need to mention them. -- john noerenberg jwn2@qualcomm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we succeeded beyond our wildest dreams and our worst fears. -- Steve Crocker, quoted in Wired Magazine, Apr, 1999 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --============_-1090134691==_ma============ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 } --></style><title>Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT</title></head><body> <div>At 4:01 PM -0600 7/21/05, Doug Royer wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite>If an entry is tied to a time zone, a TZID and an associated VTIMEZONE MUST BE included. DTSTART;TZID=PST;20050101T000000 starts at midnight New Years Day in the PST time zone and a PST VTIMEZONE MUST BE included.</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>So a VTIMEZONE is only supplied when any DATE or DATE-TIME</blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>value includes a TZID parameter. [<i>or as Robert notes below... - jwn2</i>]</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Ah. Very clear, Doug. Thank you!</div> <div><br></div> <blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote> <blockquote type="cite" cite>And yes, some vendors are not 2445/2446/2447 compliant.</blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>I'm shocked. Shocked! :-)</div> <div><br></div> <div>At 6:03 PM -0400 7/21/05, Robert_Ransdell@notesdev.ibm.com wrote:</div> <blockquote type="cite" cite><tt>4.6.5 Time Zone Component<br> The "VTIMEZONE" calendar component MUST be present if the iCalendar<br> object contains an RRULE that generates dates on both sides of a time<br> zone shift</tt></blockquote> <div><br></div> <div>Yes, this is true. I didn't make myself clear. If an iCalendar object contains no VEVENT, VTODO, or VJOURNAL components that includes an RRULE, then a VTIMEZONE object isn't required. But what about an object with an RDATE that spans a time zone shift? Better here would be:</div> <div><br></div> <div>[Line 1758 of 2445bis]:<x-tab> </x-tab>...contains an RRULE or RDATE that generates....</div> <div><br></div> <div>EXDATEs and EXRULEs con only occur if there's a recurrence rule, so perhaps there's no need to mention them.</div> <div><br></div> <x-sigsep><pre>-- </pre></x-sigsep> <div><br> john noerenberg<br> jwn2@qualcomm.com<br> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br > Like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, we succeeded beyond our<br> wildest dreams and our worst fears.<br> -- Steve Crocker, quoted in Wired Magazine, Apr, 1999<br> ----------------------------------------------------------------------</div > </body> </html> --============_-1090134691==_ma============-- Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 803C87F55A for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F191422C1 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31487-07 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463751422BF for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6LM1wT9016043 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 15:02:01 -0700 Message-ID: <42E01B56.50806@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:01:58 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT References: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> In-Reply-To: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms090407080308050602060701" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:02:07 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms090407080308050602060701 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070809090107000906080602" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070809090107000906080602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit VEVENT times can be in UTC (Z), floating time, or relative to a time zone. UTC times end in Z and do not have a VTIMEZONE. DTSTART:20050101T000000Z starts at Midnight UTC. Floating entries cover things like New Years day that starts and stops at a specific time unique to each time zone. (EST New Years Day starts 4 hours earlier than PST New Years Day). These type of entries have no VTIMEZONE and do not include 'Z'. DTSTART:20050101T000000 starts at Midnight in each observers time zone and is not tied to UTC or a time zone. If an entry is tied to a time zone, a TZID and an associated VTIMEZONE MUST BE included. DTSTART;TZID=PST;20050101T000000 starts at midnight New Years Day in the PST time zone and a PST VTIMEZONE MUST BE included. So a VTIMEZONE is only supplied when any DATE or DATE-TIME value includes a TZID parameter. And yes, some vendors are not 2445/2446/2447 compliant. John W Noerenberg II wrote: > Maybe I'm too stupid but I'm unclear on the interpretation of a > collection of iCalendar objects. > > Recently, I've been experimenting with collections of iCalendar that > describe events, etc, and reading Chris' update on 2445 (Nice work, btw). > > There's a certain, well-known, widely-used scheduling application that > chokes if an iCalendar specification containing a VEVENT lacks a > VTIMEZONE. As far as I can tell from 2445 (or 2445bis) a VEVENT doesn't > require the presence of a VTIMEZONE, but it is not definitive. > > I've looked through my archives of CalSch and Calsify, but no one seems > to have discussed this. > > Is there consensus on this or did this come up in the interop testing to > date and I've missed it? > > Thanks! -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------070809090107000906080602 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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lbisQ+xfHVnOhggkidzYfp7Ro3hEdOPB1hNgJbQV3Dk/lxn/LNR4a7+54RVFeXmF80tmfTP/ YDNpkGXQUZDceWV3c6/hHE3SrVdtV+77YyEgnTPtfKYLKck8209PJyBYV4TYPVIA9UJ6f/Z2 tFvsRJOVG6wdZD4tRn8ObXI4qZcxYh0bzWriofRwk+znx04sd8sMguXAJ0Gh3rKV7S8vFQHr VaAMmYCEsg+mrTb2ZKVN+D1D6+JfLz9UPjpS2vj00ppWdWLkN1BiStbsvhzBGgAAAAAAAA== --------------ms090407080308050602060701-- Return-Path: <jwn2@qualcomm.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7B37F556 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FC41422C2 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02002-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from numenor.qualcomm.com (numenor.qualcomm.com [129.46.51.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD9421422C1 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crowley.qualcomm.com (crowley.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.151]) by numenor.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j6LLklo7022181 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.77.33] (valinor.qualcomm.com [129.46.77.33]) by crowley.qualcomm.com (8.12.10/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id j6LLkiRr007644 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <p07000c00bf05c18cef5c@[129.46.77.33]> User-Agent: eudora623carbon-0606081134 X-PGP-RSA-Fingerprint: EA53 01A6 C076 F9C2 09E8 9480 645A 8857 X-PGP-DH-Fingerprint: 4F5E 56C9 BD4D 0227 331F 6AEE 9590 24F9 6FD7 04F8 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:43:35 -0700 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org From: John W Noerenberg II <jwn2@qualcomm.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Bare Naked VEVENT X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:46:51 -0000 Maybe I'm too stupid but I'm unclear on the interpretation of a collection of iCalendar objects. Recently, I've been experimenting with collections of iCalendar that describe events, etc, and reading Chris' update on 2445 (Nice work, btw). There's a certain, well-known, widely-used scheduling application that chokes if an iCalendar specification containing a VEVENT lacks a VTIMEZONE. As far as I can tell from 2445 (or 2445bis) a VEVENT doesn't require the presence of a VTIMEZONE, but it is not definitive. I've looked through my archives of CalSch and Calsify, but no one seems to have discussed this. Is there consensus on this or did this come up in the interop testing to date and I've missed it? Thanks! -- john noerenberg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Statt des törichten Ignorabimus heiße im Gegenteil unsere Lösung: Wir müssen wissen, Wir werden wissen. -- David Hilbert, "Logic and the Understanding of Nature, Sep 1930 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Return-Path: <Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB6DD7F555 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3341422C0 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01148-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.204]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2D0C61422B3 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:13:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 89941 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2005 21:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (dave.thewlis@sbcglobal.net@69.107.139.54 with plain) by smtp105.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jul 2005 21:13:46 -0000 Message-ID: <42E00FFF.4010705@calconnect.org> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:13:35 -0700 From: Dave Thewlis <Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org> Organization: The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify list <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_30_40, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Results of the Calconnect Recurrence Questionnaire are available X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 21:13:48 -0000 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Calconnect, the Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium, is happy to announce the availability of the Results from the Recurrence Questionnaire which we conducted in April/May of this year. The results may be found on the Consortium Website under "Work Products" or directly at <a href="http://www.calconnect.org/resultsfromrecurrencequestionnaire.pdf">http://www.calconnect.org/resultsfromrecurrencequestionnaire.pdf</a>.<br> <br> The Consortium thanks everyone who offered suggestions and especially all of those who responded to the questionnaire. We hope that the information will be of interest to you, and would welcome any feedback or suggestions; please send to me at the e-mail below and I will ensure that your comments are received by the Recurrence Technical Committee.<br> <br> We also apologize for the length of time it has taken to publish these results since the cutoff for the questionnaire. We don't expect to take as long in the future.<br> <br> Best regards,<br> <br> <br> Dave Thewlis<br> <br> <div class="moz-signature">-- <br> <b>Dave Thewlis, Executive Director<br> Calconnect - The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium</b><br> +1 707 840 9391 (voice) · +1 707 498 2238 (mobile)<br> <a href="http://www.calconnect.org">http://www.calconnect.org</a> · <a href="mailto:Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org">Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org</a> </div> </body> </html> Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22E97F4E4 for <Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD61142284 for <Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07833-10 for <Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691A5142280 for <Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [63.163.82.29] (cyr29.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.29]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6KDQHuG007801 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:26:18 -0400 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:59:03 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Message-ID: <4D5FDC9A111F17AE6704AF91@ninevah.local> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Items for Calsify meeting agenda X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:59:08 -0000 Hi, I would like to request an item on the Calsify meeting agenda to discuss the current status of the CalDAV draft. Whilst that is not a WG item, we (the authors) do plan on having an informal last call for it on the calsify and caldav lists (as well as suitable webdav lists) prior to submission to the IESG. One of the other authors will be at the meeting to discuss this - I get to miss out on great French cuisine this time around :-( I would also like to request an agenda item to discuss (and bring to people's awareness) the issue of the proposed daylight savings time changes in the US. Again this is not really a WG item but its effect has serious repercussions for iCalendar based products, and there are some issues as to how best such a change might be accomplished. -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <Chris_Stoner@notesdev.ibm.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DBC77F51A; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48695142284; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07077-05; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.159.212.202] (capricorn.notesdev.ibm.com [205.159.212.202]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3987F142280; Wed, 20 Jul 2005 06:35:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200507192305.41254.reinhold@kainhofer.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Build V70_M6_06302005 Beta 4NP June 30, 2005 Message-ID: <OFA7CCA0AF.0DD75FC1-ON85257044.0047DD27-85257044.0048082F@notesdev.ibm.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:06:19 -0400 To: reinhold@kainhofer.com From: Chris_Stoner@notesdev.ibm.com X-MIMETrack: CD-MIME by Router on Capricorn/Iris(Build V70_06052005|June 05, 2005) at 07/20/2005 09:30:33 AM, CD-MIME complete at 07/20/2005 09:32:54 AM, Itemize by Router on Capricorn/Iris(Build V70_06052005|June 05, 2005) at 07/20/2005 09:32:54 AM, Serialize by Router on Capricorn/Iris(Build V70_06052005|June 05, 2005) at 07/20/2005 09:32:56 AM, Serialize complete at 07/20/2005 09:32:56 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, NO_REAL_NAME X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:38:13 -0000 Reinhold: I'd love to see your list, as I agree, the RRULE parts of the standard are rather confusing and have been interpreted in many different ways. -Chris Stoner ietf-calsify-bounces@osafoundation.org wrote on 07/19/2005 05:05:35 PM: > Hello Lisa, > > Am Dienstag, 19. Juli 2005 22:16 schrieb Lisa Dusseault: > > This is the first draft updating RFC2445 for Draft Standard. > > That's really great news! > One particular field that needs a lot of care are recurrence rules. While > implementing a full rrule system (implementing all BY* rule parts, multiple > RRULEs and EXRULEs, RDATEs, EXDATEs, etc.), I found lots of places where rfc > 2445 is really unclear and leaves things quite open for interpretation. Since > recurrence rules are such an integral part of calendar data exchange (betwen > apps, attendees and also between client and server), rfc2445bis should really > make this a lot clearer. > > Where will the discussion on the rfc2445bis happen? Here on calsify or on > ietf-calendar? > I'll try to generate a list of issues I think should be cleared to make the > rfc unambiguous as far as recurrences are concerned. > > Cheers, > Reinhold > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria > email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ > * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at > * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer > [attachment "att6elqo.dat" deleted by Chris Stoner/Westford/IBM] > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-calsify mailing list > Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify Return-Path: <tantek@technorati.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 824DB7F544 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D25E1422A8 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31822-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.technorati.com (mail.technorati.com [209.237.227.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24AF814225D for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.190.23] (m206-184.dsl.tsoft.com [198.144.206.184]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.technorati.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 804422127E2 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42DDA784.9000503@Royer.com> References: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <42DD9929.4080203@Royer.com> <8fd395af8a4dabce7ea3858887815d5e@technorati.com> <42DDA784.9000503@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <62a68ccf2ea6661849904cf6ab086719@technorati.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tantek_=C7elik?= <tantek@technorati.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Rethinking vs measuring Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:15:32 -0700 To: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 02:15:29 -0000 On Jul 19, 2005, at 6:23 PM, Doug Royer wrote: > > > Tantek =C7elik wrote: >> On Jul 19, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Doug Royer wrote: >>> >>> I think that CALSIFY needs to measure what vendors really do >>> at this time with iCal objects. >> Agreed. In fact, I think what vendors really do should=20 >> trump/supercede any "simplification" effort. >> E.g. vendors support DTEND interoperably. Therefore we should keep=20= >> DTEND, regardless of your personal opinion that it is redundant with=20= >> DURATION. > > The problem is not if we have both. The problem is not all vendors > support both - so it busted. And bused means we can not go > to 'standard' status. That is a reasonable assertion to make if you can point to specifics=20 (perhaps you already have and I missed the URL). My specifics: In my (albeit limited) experience, DTEND is supported=20 just fine (have yet to find any problems with) in both Apple=20 iCal.app/OSX, and Mozilla Sunbird. > So keeping DTEND vs DURATION 'as is" means that it will > be difficult to declare that any one object is interoperable. > > Even when some of the large vendors use DTEND, they calculate > it like DURATION. Even some vendors store both DTEND and DURATION > in their store, they only use the DURATION or calculated DURATION > value that they have stored, ignoring time zone shifts. > > Its not that I 'want' DURATION, its that seems to be how > the majority of vendors do the time math. I'm not seeing any of the problems you speak of (probably due to my own=20= ignorance / naivete / lack of experience). How recent are the=20 specifics/evidence behind your conclusions? Admittedly perhaps I am oversimplifying the situation, BUT: As long as I can publish DTEND properties and have common clients (e.g.=20= iCal.app and Sunbird) treat it properly/accurately, why should I stop=20 using DTEND? Thanks, Tantek -- Tantek =C7elik Senior Technologist, Technorati, Inc. Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E02397F548 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98571422A8 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 00568-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 015A4142249 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6K1NHjP012580 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:23:21 -0700 Message-ID: <42DDA784.9000503@Royer.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 19:23:16 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Rethinking vs measuring References: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <42DD9929.4080203@Royer.com> <8fd395af8a4dabce7ea3858887815d5e@technorati.com> In-Reply-To: <8fd395af8a4dabce7ea3858887815d5e@technorati.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070003040000070208070305" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:23:29 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070003040000070208070305 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060803080902000009060208" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060803080902000009060208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tantek =C7elik wrote: > On Jul 19, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Doug Royer wrote: >=20 >> >> I think that CALSIFY needs to measure what vendors really do >> at this time with iCal objects. >=20 >=20 > Agreed. In fact, I think what vendors really do should trump/supercede= =20 > any "simplification" effort. >=20 > E.g. vendors support DTEND interoperably. Therefore we should keep=20 > DTEND, regardless of your personal opinion that it is redundant with=20 > DURATION. The problem is not if we have both. The problem is not all vendors support both - so it busted. And bused means we can not go to 'standard' status. So keeping DTEND vs DURATION 'as is" means that it will be difficult to declare that any one object is interoperable. Even when some of the large vendors use DTEND, they calculate it like DURATION. Even some vendors store both DTEND and DURATION in their store, they only use the DURATION or calculated DURATION value that they have stored, ignoring time zone shifts. Its not that I 'want' DURATION, its that seems to be how the majority of vendors do the time math. --=20 Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------060803080902000009060208 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. Broadway St #266;Idaho Falls;ID;83402;U.S.A email;internet:Doug@Royer.com title:CEO tel;work:208-881-0380 tel;fax:866-494-8574 note;quoted-printable:AOL: SupportUnix=0D=0A= MSN: Support@INET-Consulting.com=0D=0A= Yahoo: Help4Unix x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://Royer.com version:2.1 end:vcard --------------060803080902000009060208-- --------------ms070003040000070208070305 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINcDCC A2IwggLLoAMCAQICEAvaCxfBP4mOqwl0erTOLjMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UE BhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1Ymxp YyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4 MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJp 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10024) with ESMTP id 32373-05 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.technorati.com (mail.technorati.com [209.237.227.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC29F1422A7 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.190.23] (m206-184.dsl.tsoft.com [198.144.206.184]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.technorati.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFF3C2127EB for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:08:51 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619.2) In-Reply-To: <42DD9929.4080203@Royer.com> References: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> <42DD9929.4080203@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Message-Id: <8fd395af8a4dabce7ea3858887815d5e@technorati.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tantek_=C7elik?= <tantek@technorati.com> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Rethinking vs measuring Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:08:57 -0700 To: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619.2) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:08:53 -0000 On Jul 19, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Doug Royer wrote: > > I think that CALSIFY needs to measure what vendors really do > at this time with iCal objects. Agreed. In fact, I think what vendors really do should trump/supercede=20= any "simplification" effort. E.g. vendors support DTEND interoperably. Therefore we should keep=20 DTEND, regardless of your personal opinion that it is redundant with=20 DURATION. > > I agree that clarifying the text is essential. I also think > that if 80% of vendors do 'A', then that is the way that > CALSIFY needs to start with as it will be the fastest > way to interoperability. Agreed. > > The goal is to make a specification that is interoperable > with vendors. By "vendors", I presume you mean *current implementations from vendors*. > This will go on for years if we re-start iCal > and what it "should" do. Also agreed. > > I hope we keep the SIMPLIFY part as alive as fixing 2445 errors. Only if SIMPLIFY doesn't interfere with INTEROP. INTEROP *must* take precedence over SIMPLIFY. Thanks, Tantek -- Tantek =C7elik Senior Technologist, Technorati, Inc. Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF06C7F540 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C98D71422A8 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31915-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D69D1422A0 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6K0M1Ts012024 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:22:04 -0700 Message-ID: <42DD9929.4080203@Royer.com> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:22:01 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org References: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> In-Reply-To: <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060807010206000907070507" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Rethinking vs measuring X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:22:21 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060807010206000907070507 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090907020806040209030000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090907020806040209030000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think that CALSIFY needs to measure what vendors really do at this time with iCal objects. I agree that clarifying the text is essential. I also think that if 80% of vendors do 'A', then that is the way that CALSIFY needs to start with as it will be the fastest way to interoperability. The goal is to make a specification that is interoperable with vendors. This will go on for years if we re-start iCal and what it "should" do. I hope we keep the SIMPLIFY part as alive as fixing 2445 errors. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------090907020806040209030000 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. Broadway St #266;Idaho Falls;ID;83402;U.S.A email;internet:Doug@Royer.com title:CEO tel;work:208-881-0380 tel;fax:866-494-8574 note;quoted-printable:AOL: SupportUnix=0D=0A= MSN: Support@INET-Consulting.com=0D=0A= Yahoo: Help4Unix x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://Royer.com version:2.1 end:vcard --------------090907020806040209030000-- --------------ms060807010206000907070507 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINcDCC A2IwggLLoAMCAQICEAvaCxfBP4mOqwl0erTOLjMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UE BhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1Ymxp YyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4 MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJp 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zA0Tyo+PKYAbUDLSXp25BWy4bwdyCA8Yjyp7tglUAzcFw8hRu1OAZAdW0Yil7iMkw6By4jBt lfEJ2v65WUfqRSZzQw4AdTdddDzybsP4O70GV0i0oMP4GsZ0ZPda8bjfO4OttLZVKF8bvul+ 6YYcdycsgRHWKroXcj30wJKDArUXsCz5ZD7R+8bmkY4kWFbHFreSC1eAXC7ZwLltsmjstt4V zXntKCcJKbnzLE/xgKp52tyjo3QPLkDhLIoFeeJHZwVqDVFvyNAVF6FrPd68wQAAAAAAAA== --------------ms060807010206000907070507-- Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC907F536 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAFBC1422A0 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31732-01 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17879142295 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:49:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from einstein (chello062178130194.6.13.tuwien.teleweb.at [62.178.130.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6JLn4gN023799 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:49:06 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:48:54 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.1 References: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> In-Reply-To: <200507191458.j6JEwcfv006048@neelix.kom.tuwien.ac.at> X-Face: ")c{Au:m/NOF(f35rjhcBt1!6qS-QGbQ@)W]oPwD`8voekiB@|F0@FgDr"S@=?utf-8?q?=5Bim*un0=5D=3A6=0A=09WH1B=24e675u=7CE/oiWJ=26=23=25?=>=M,iFa%U='hgdU@#oEH`JO8QJ6!29O?M+YO'q6'>=?utf-8?q?=26/Sva=7BkUd=0A=09uq9J13?=)"5^; &~-%==D; W']zE[VP/OuP9l(.$"7cDh\0j2<f)la8Am>}1uNY6HQ:!n)=?utf-8?q?3=5D0j=0A=09drSp?=@(cji7\N<?(YT/~]m\'|SOi,asY<!?uOSj2I*sfMyf; dnv4Hnbq#)=?utf-8?q?W=5Fm53=7Ca=5E7=60=24=5FX=0A=09k=2513=5E4=3AO=27=3Du=7C=7D?=<E9Cm@},g`JDvR2$vX])7{_.\7A+t]qI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart6565253.aOlbUhLNgf"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507192348.58418.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Re: Out of scope rule parts? X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:49:09 -0000 --nextPart6565253.aOlbUhLNgf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Am Dienstag, 19. Juli 2005 16:58 schrieb Laird Nelson: > RFC 2445 says: > > If BYxxx rule part values are found which are beyond the available > scope (ie, BYMONTHDAY=3D30 in February), they are simply ignored. > > Consider this (stupid) RRULE: > > RRULE:FREQ=3DSECONDLY;BYMONTH=3D2;BYYEARDAY=3D4;BYHOUR=3D9 > > Will this *never* generate an occurrence? That is, does the offending > BYxxx rule part (BYYEARDAY in this case) cause the "finer grained" BYxxx > rule parts to be ignored? Or will the RRULE simply ignore the BYYEARDAY > part, thus generating an occurrence on every second in the ninth hour in > February? Actually, I think this is one of the areas where rfc 2445 is not very clear= =2E=20 In the following I will use this example: DTSTART;TZID=3DEurope/Vienna: 20050201T120000 RRULE:FREQ=3DMONTHLY;BYMONTHDAY=3D30;FREQ=3D3 In particular, what do the formulation in the rfc mean: =2D) "beyond the available scope": What is the available scope? If values=20 outside the possible range are given, this is clear. But the example in the= =20 rfc already is unclear.=20 Is the bymonthday=3D30 out of scope at all? (The rfc gives this as example,= so=20 according to the rfc it should be). Is the bymonthday in the example above beyond the available scope in februa= ry?=20 Is it beyond the available scope altogether because in february it's out of= =20 scope (of course not, but the rfc doesn't specify the scope, so one might=20 argue in this direction, too)? =2D) "simply ignored": Does this mean ignored as in "treated as if that by*= part=20 wasn't given at all"? Or is the resulting occurrence (which would happen a= t=20 an invalid date) simply ignored? In particular, in the example above, the wording allows several=20 interpretations... Which should be the correct interpretation of the rfc an= d=20 the correct resulting list of occurences: 1) Feb 1 2005, May 30 2005, Aug 30, 2005, Nov 30 2005, (February is ignored= =20 altogether, because BYMONTHDAY=3D30 is out of scope) 2) Feb 1 2005, May 30 2005, Aug 30 2005, Nov 30 2005, Feb 1 2005 (because= =20 BYMONTHDAY=3D30 is out of scope for february; the whole BYMONTHDAY is ignor= ed=20 =3D> date taken from DTSTART), MAY 30 2005, ... 3) Feb 1 2005, May 1 2005, Aug 1 200, Nov 1 2005, ... (The whole BYMONTHDAY= is=20 ignored because it's out of scope for february) 4) Only the DTSTART (since the only given bymonthday is not possible for on= e=20 month, the rfc says that this by** rule part *value* is ignored, leaving us= =20 with an empty list of bymonthdays, so no occurrences can happen after the=20 dtstart)... Intuitively, I'd say that 1) would be the most sensible interpretation...=20 Point 2) is not what a user would expect, 4) is definitely not what is=20 intended[1], and 3) is also counter-intuitive, since the rrule explicitly=20 says that it should happen on the 30th. Cheers, Reinhold PS: Back to your example: I'd say that the event doesn't recur at all (i.e.= =20 only the DTSTART is the only recurrence). But as I said, this is up to=20 interpretation of the rfc and one can argue about the result... PS2: Your first interpretation (no recurrence at all) is my 1), and your ot= her=20 possibility (byyearday ignored) is my 3)... [1] This is rather a stretch of the rfc, since "BYMONTHDAY=3D" (a completel= y=20 empty bymonthday rule) is not rfc2445-compliant. On the other hand, the rfc= =20 says that the BY** rule part *value* is ignored, not the complete BY*** rul= e=20 part! =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- DI Mag. Dr. Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer lead developer --nextPart6565253.aOlbUhLNgf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC3XVKTqjEwhXvPN0RAhClAJoCitvCOGOfRCvHIjxNufWF2JKaHQCgkbAM /2QtTQwOELs3+JhGpgNBC34= =0W4i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart6565253.aOlbUhLNgf-- Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED8F67F526; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADEF1422A0; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 26763-07; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38464142295; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:05:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from einstein (chello062178130194.6.13.tuwien.teleweb.at [62.178.130.194]) (authenticated bits=0) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j6JL5nAX019978 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:05:51 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 23:05:35 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.1 References: <E1DtWC9-0001qM-Ba@newodin.ietf.org> <op.st6fxscveochem@lisa.local> In-Reply-To: <op.st6fxscveochem@lisa.local> X-Face: ")c{Au:m/NOF(f35rjhcBt1!6qS-QGbQ@)W]oPwD`8voekiB@|F0@FgDr"S@=?utf-8?q?=5Bim*un0=5D=3A6=0A=09WH1B=24e675u=7CE/oiWJ=26=23=25?=>=M,iFa%U='hgdU@#oEH`JO8QJ6!29O?M+YO'q6'>=?utf-8?q?=26/Sva=7BkUd=0A=09uq9J13?=)"5^; &~-%==D; W']zE[VP/OuP9l(.$"7cDh\0j2<f)la8Am>}1uNY6HQ:!n)=?utf-8?q?3=5D0j=0A=09drSp?=@(cji7\N<?(YT/~]m\'|SOi,asY<!?uOSj2I*sfMyf; dnv4Hnbq#)=?utf-8?q?W=5Fm53=7Ca=5E7=60=24=5FX=0A=09k=2513=5E4=3AO=27=3Du=7C=7D?=<E9Cm@},g`JDvR2$vX])7{_.\7A+t]qI MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1808511.Btd71cc7Oa"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507192305.41254.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:05:55 -0000 --nextPart1808511.Btd71cc7Oa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-6" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hello Lisa, Am Dienstag, 19. Juli 2005 22:16 schrieb Lisa Dusseault: > This is the first draft updating RFC2445 for Draft Standard. =20 That's really great news!=20 One particular field that needs a lot of care are recurrence rules. While=20 implementing a full rrule system (implementing all BY* rule parts, multiple= =20 RRULEs and EXRULEs, RDATEs, EXDATEs, etc.), I found lots of places where rf= c=20 2445 is really unclear and leaves things quite open for interpretation. Sin= ce=20 recurrence rules are such an integral part of calendar data exchange (betwe= n=20 apps, attendees and also between client and server), rfc2445bis should real= ly=20 make this a lot clearer.=20 Where will the discussion on the rfc2445bis happen? Here on calsify or on=20 ietf-calendar? I'll try to generate a list of issues I think should be cleared to make the= =20 rfc unambiguous as far as recurrences are concerned.=20 Cheers, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer / KPilot maintain= er --nextPart1808511.Btd71cc7Oa Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBC3WskTqjEwhXvPN0RAjPJAJ4vBlYseo04zaUxJ2ii/AsPWiWzggCeMqWN 7mltyOHVTF5s5t1GyhdnRxM= =Z+5Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1808511.Btd71cc7Oa-- Return-Path: <lisa@osafoundation.org> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE3D7F526 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D3321422A1 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27066-10; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lisa.local (w002.z065106067.sjc-ca.dsl.cnc.net [65.106.67.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E653142257; Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:40 -0700 (PDT) References: <E1DtWC9-0001qM-Ba@newodin.ietf.org> Message-ID: <op.st6fxscveochem@lisa.local> To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:16:30 -0700 From: "Lisa Dusseault" <lisa@osafoundation.org> Organization: OSAF Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=----------iPrdpKLK6geJ0hH5DqFpPp MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <E1DtWC9-0001qM-Ba@newodin.ietf.org> User-Agent: Opera M2/8.01 (MacPPC, build 2092) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Cc: deriks@microsoft.com, Frank.Dawson@nokia.com Subject: [Ietf-calsify] Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:16:46 -0000 ------------iPrdpKLK6geJ0hH5DqFpPp Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; delsp=yes; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This is the first draft updating RFC2445 for Draft Standard. No substantive features have been removed yet although that's a big part of the work ahead of us in CALSIFY. The first stab at revising RFC2445 focused on reordering the spec (top-down rather than bottom up) and getting it published in time to discuss in Paris (and it will be on the agenda, as will interop results relating to future work on this draft). The XML and HTML versions can be found here: http://ietf.webdav.org/calsify/rfc2445bis/ Thanks to Chris for taking this on, Lisa ------- Forwarded message ------- From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:50:01 -0700 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core Object Specification (iCalendar) Author(s) : C. Stoner Filename : draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt Pages : 165 Date : 2005-7-15 Calendar systems export, transport and sometimes even store calendar information in a standard, interoperable format. This memo defines the common format for openly exchanging calendaring and scheduling information across the Internet, known as the iCalendar object format. An iCalendar object may represent an event, to-do or task, or journal entry (note). Comments are solicited and should be addressed to the working group's mailing list at ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org and/or the editor. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-cstoner-rfc2445bis-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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(dave.thewlis@sbcglobal.net@69.107.113.102 with plain) by smtp113.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 11 Jul 2005 17:10:47 -0000 Message-ID: <42D2A812.6000603@calconnect.org> Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:10:42 -0700 From: Dave Thewlis <Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org> Organization: The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify list <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, HTML_MESSAGE, MIME_HTML_ONLY X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] CalConnect Survey on the use of online event calendars X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:10:48 -0000 <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> This message is being sent to multiple calendaring lists; my apologies if you receive it more than once.<br> <br> <br class="khtml-block-placeholder"> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">CalConnect – The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium – is conducting a study on the use of online event calendars within organizations and the need for more interoperability between them.</span></font></div> <p style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> </span></font></p> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">The goal of the survey is to understand the current state of event calendaring: what types of calendars are in use (web pages, wikis, blogs, emails, etc); which commercial and open-source solutions are most popular; what features are most important; and how the calendars are hosted.</span></font></div> <p style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> </span></font></p> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Your participation in this survey will require less than 15 minutes of your time and will help provide the necessary data to complete the study. Thank you in advance for taking the survey.</span></font></div> <p style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> </span></font></p> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">Click on the following link to take the survey: <</span></font><a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/%7Ecalendar/survey_reg.html"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0023f9">http://www.dartmouth.edu/~calendar/survey_reg.html</font></span></font></a><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">></span></font></div> <p style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> </span></font></p> <div style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;">This survey is sponsored by CalConnect – The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium – </span></font><a href="http://www.calconnect.org/"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0023f9">http://www.calconnect.org</font></span></font></a></div> <p style="margin: 0px;"><font class="Apple-style-span"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 16px;"> </span></font></p> -- <br> <div class="moz-signature"><b>Dave Thewlis, Executive Director<br> Calconnect - The Calendaring and Scheduling Consortium</b><br> +1 707 840 9391 (voice) · +1 707 498 2238 (mobile)<br> <a href="http://www.calconnect.org">http://www.calconnect.org</a> · <a href="mailto:Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org">Dave.Thewlis@calconnect.org</a> </div> </body> </html> Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43B487F53B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A904142286 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08036-10 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 137CE14227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68INNOk029091 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:26 -0700 Message-ID: <42CEC49A.1080109@Royer.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 12:23:22 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030401070502020208080004" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: multiple names for same TZID X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 18:23:32 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030401070502020208080004 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020803070108050700060408" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020803070108050700060408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Search for the word 'alias' in the draft. > - Many client application, when using timezones on a server would > benefit greatly if they could map the currently selected Operating > System timezone to a registry timezone, some support for time zone > aliases could possibly bring a solution to this issue. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------020803070108050700060408 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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port 10024) with ESMTP id 10258-02 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet04.oracle.com (rgminet04.oracle.com [148.87.122.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AFD614227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68HsnmH025456; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:54:49 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68HsmMN025414; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:54:48 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68Hslbn007673; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:54:47 -0600 Received: from [144.23.219.91] (dhcp-ca-montreal-144-23-219-91.ca.oracle.com [144.23.219.91]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68HsitS007650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:54:47 -0600 Message-ID: <42CEBDE2.9050605@oracle.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:54:42 -0400 From: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> <42CE87DC.5020407@oracle.com> <42CEB583.4060203@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CEB583.4060203@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:54:56 -0000 I'm saying it breaks RFC2445 because the formal definition of a VTIMEZONE component does not include anything allowing the addition of such property, if the formal definition had a iana-token, then it could be added. --Simon Doug Royer wrote: > > So in other words, you do not know if breaks anything? > You just think they would break? > > Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> Doug Royer wrote: >> >>> >>> Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you >>> have some specific reason or bug in the draft >>> you have not yet stated).. >>> >> >> Maybe I missed something in 2445 but, in section 4.6.5, the formal >> definition of a VTIMEZONE object does not seem to contain anything >> allowing the addition of new non-"x-prop" parameters in a VTIMEZONE >> component(i.e.: iana-token). So if you do a parser and it validates >> the data using the formal definitions i will break (But yes most >> parsers are more forgiving than that). >> Return-Path: <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C14C67F552 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADD93142286 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08940-10 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet04.oracle.com (rgminet04.oracle.com [148.87.122.33]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B8A014227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet04.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68HNKsu009269; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:20 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet04.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68HNJYD009243; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:19 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68HNIJx024503; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:18 -0600 Received: from [144.23.219.91] (dhcp-ca-montreal-144-23-219-91.ca.oracle.com [144.23.219.91]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68HNHZn024486 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 11:23:18 -0600 Message-ID: <42CEB684.7050902@oracle.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:23:16 -0400 From: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: registery vs server References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> <42CE81BF.3010901@oracle.com> <42CEB4D8.6000409@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CEB4D8.6000409@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.6 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:23:27 -0000 Doug Royer wrote: > > > Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > >> ... I don't believe that specifying the protocol to transfer the >> timezones should be included in a registry draft. > > > So your reversing your request that it be HTTP? > That's not the point, the first "request" was if it was specified in the draft it'd rather be http, but clearly separating both the concept of registry and service is the best option IMO and the current draft is mixing both. --Simon Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF3D47F545 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9E86142286 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 07653-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3BE914227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:19:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68HJ0F0028081 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:19:05 -0700 Message-ID: <42CEB583.4060203@Royer.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:18:59 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> <42CE87DC.5020407@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CE87DC.5020407@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060600020502060702050608" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:19:12 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060600020502060702050608 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000209060700060309040506" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000209060700060309040506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit So in other words, you do not know if breaks anything? You just think they would break? Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > Hello, > > Doug Royer wrote: > >> >> Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you >> have some specific reason or bug in the draft >> you have not yet stated).. >> > > Maybe I missed something in 2445 but, in section 4.6.5, the formal > definition of a VTIMEZONE object does not seem to contain anything > allowing the addition of new non-"x-prop" parameters in a VTIMEZONE > component(i.e.: iana-token). So if you do a parser and it validates the > data using the formal definitions i will break (But yes most parsers are > more forgiving than that). > -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------000209060700060309040506 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. Broadway St #266;Idaho Falls;ID;83402;U.S.A email;internet:Doug@Royer.com title:CEO tel;work:208-881-0380 tel;fax:866-494-8574 note;quoted-printable:AOL: SupportUnix=0D=0A= MSN: Support@INET-Consulting.com=0D=0A= Yahoo: Help4Unix x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://Royer.com version:2.1 end:vcard --------------000209060700060309040506-- --------------ms060600020502060702050608 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINcDCC A2IwggLLoAMCAQICEAvaCxfBP4mOqwl0erTOLjMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UE BhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1Ymxp YyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4 MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJp 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with ESMTP id 09895-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE02714227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68HG9JF028034 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:16:15 -0700 Message-ID: <42CEB4D8.6000409@Royer.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:16:08 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: registery vs server References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> <42CE81BF.3010901@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CE81BF.3010901@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms060709030100070904030308" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:16:24 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms060709030100070904030308 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050501080409080004020408" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050501080409080004020408 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > ... I don't believe that > specifying the protocol to transfer the timezones should be included in > a registry draft. So your reversing your request that it be HTTP? -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------050501080409080004020408 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 10874-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01F914227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:15:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ninevah.cyrusoft.com (ninevah.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.9]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j68GivuG014539 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:44:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:15:56 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: ietf-calendar@imc.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon Message-ID: <51F1BDC3A09E91AF8E45BC2F@ninevah.cyrusoft.com> In-Reply-To: <42CEB1CD.7050607@Royer.com> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> <834C47D22E4DF9EE73BA969C@ninevah.local> <42CEB1CD.7050607@Royer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.0a8 (Linux/PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:15:59 -0000 Hi Doug, --On Friday, July 08, 2005 11:03:09 AM -0600 Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> wrote: >> The point is POLYGON is not defined in 2445 - it something new and we >> should have some solid justification for adding new things to iCalendar >> right now. > > It is not being proposed as part of CALSIFY. > > I simply replied to the email on this list. > I have redirected it to calsch to avoid the confusion. Well strictly speaking calsify has taken over from calsch. Certainly in this case 2445 is clear that new properties have to be registered and it does describe an approval process for doing that, but does not define the registry itself. That would certainly have to be fixed BEFORE you could even define POLYGON etc in your draft. If I am mistaken, one of calsify's jobs was to formalise the property/parameter etc registry. I believe we should not wait for that registry to be setup. We need to get a timezone registry up and running as it might be crucial for helping vendors and users migrate their timezone definitions if the US government ultimately decides to proceed with its plan to change the definition of daylight savings time in the US next year. If you're not aware of what I am talking about see: <http://www.calconnect.org/dstadvisorynotice.html> My preference is to remove POLYGON etc from the timezone registry draft and move that forward quickly. Once calsify has defined a viable process for creating new standard parameters/properties, POLYGON etc can be defined in another draft and IANA can choose to include those in its definitions. But until then they should be left out. -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA737F545 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C73FD142286 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 10136-05 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:13:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0E3214227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68HCwQ0027963 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:13:01 -0700 Message-ID: <42CEB419.3070904@Royer.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:12:57 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: Registry vs authority References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCC85.3070000@Royer.com> <A34B26B9548E8682106B3A4D@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <A34B26B9548E8682106B3A4D@ninevah.local> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms070201030601040404020903" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:13:08 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070201030601040404020903 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020905080605040202080608" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020905080605040202080608 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Doug, > > --On July 7, 2005 6:44:53 PM -0600 Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> wrote: > >> BEEP profiles can be registered by anyone. I see a similar >> process for time zones. Time zone definitions will be registered >> so that the definitions can be shared independent of the >> authority that originally defined them. > > > Allowing anyone to register timezones will mean that no one will trust > the registry. It must be a clear who is in charge of or defining the > registry information. Interesting, but that is not the way it works. Any political organization like a city, state, or county in the US can specify their time zones. And a few have in our own history. In addition, the Microsoft OSs do not use the same names for time zones as UNIX. I see no reason the time zones used by Microsoft can not also be registered in this registry. > You bring up the point that maybe there will be more than one 'official' > authority in addition to Olson. That time zone database is also not the authority. They do not claim to be official or authoritative . The only official time zones are those defined by the national and regional governments of the word. > In that case I would want to know the > source of the data in the registry. If I use the FOO time zone, it does not matter who defined it. It matters that everyone can tell in a standard way when the meetings will take place. Authority is irrelevant. Consistency between vendors is relevant in iCal. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------020905080605040202080608 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 09398-05 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 275E914224C for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j68H3AS4027869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:03:19 -0700 Message-ID: <42CEB1CD.7050607@Royer.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 11:03:09 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> <834C47D22E4DF9EE73BA969C@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <834C47D22E4DF9EE73BA969C@ninevah.local> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms040300010601050506000702" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL X-Spam-Level: Cc: Calsify <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: "ietf-calendar@imc.org" <ietf-calendar@imc.org> List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 17:03:27 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms040300010601050506000702 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060700030604040204010600" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060700030604040204010600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cyrus Daboo wrote: >> >> It does NOT break 2445. If anyone thinks it does, point out how. > > > The point is POLYGON is not defined in 2445 - it something new and we > should have some solid justification for adding new things to iCalendar > right now. It is not being proposed as part of CALSIFY. I simply replied to the email on this list. I have redirected it to calsch to avoid the confusion. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------060700030604040204010600 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. Broadway St #266;Idaho Falls;ID;83402;U.S.A email;internet:Doug@Royer.com title:CEO tel;work:208-881-0380 tel;fax:866-494-8574 note;quoted-printable:AOL: SupportUnix=0D=0A= MSN: Support@INET-Consulting.com=0D=0A= Yahoo: Help4Unix x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://Royer.com version:2.1 end:vcard --------------060700030604040204010600-- --------------ms040300010601050506000702 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINcDCC A2IwggLLoAMCAQICEAvaCxfBP4mOqwl0erTOLjMwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQECBQAwXzELMAkGA1UE BhMCVVMxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMTcwNQYDVQQLEy5DbGFzcyAxIFB1Ymxp YyBQcmltYXJ5IENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gQXV0aG9yaXR5MB4XDTk4MDUxMjAwMDAwMFoXDTA4 MDUxMjIzNTk1OVowgcwxFzAVBgNVBAoTDlZlcmlTaWduLCBJbmMuMR8wHQYDVQQLExZWZXJp 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port 10024) with ESMTP id 09025-02 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agminet02.oracle.com (agminet02.oracle.com [141.146.126.229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A848142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from agminet02.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j68E4Qxu001058 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:04:26 -0500 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by agminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j68E4PVa001006 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 09:04:25 -0500 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68E4Ori028153 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:04:24 -0600 Received: from [144.23.219.91] (dhcp-ca-montreal-144-23-219-91.ca.oracle.com [144.23.219.91]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68E4N8V028140 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:04:24 -0600 Message-ID: <42CE87DC.5020407@oracle.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 10:04:12 -0400 From: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:04:27 -0000 Hello, Doug Royer wrote: > > Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you > have some specific reason or bug in the draft > you have not yet stated).. > Maybe I missed something in 2445 but, in section 4.6.5, the formal definition of a VTIMEZONE object does not seem to contain anything allowing the addition of new non-"x-prop" parameters in a VTIMEZONE component(i.e.: iana-token). So if you do a parser and it validates the data using the formal definitions i will break (But yes most parsers are more forgiving than that). --Simon Return-Path: <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AE027F551 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35978142282 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 04186-06 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com (rgminet01.oracle.com [148.87.122.30]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAEA8142275 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:38:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet01.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68DcNLE022026 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:38:23 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id j68DcMnW022008 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:38:22 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68DcLiu015999 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:38:21 -0600 Received: from [144.23.219.91] (dhcp-ca-montreal-144-23-219-91.ca.oracle.com [144.23.219.91]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j68DcIO5015849 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:38:21 -0600 Message-ID: <42CE81BF.3010901@oracle.com> Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 09:38:07 -0400 From: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: registery vs server References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:38:24 -0000 Hello Doug, Doug Royer wrote: > > Step one is create the registry. Then I think that we can decide > how to write a protocol to get the data as you suggest. > > I am not sure if IANA wants to provide a time zone 'server' anyway. > > I agree with you that the first step is to create a registry. But don't you think that specifying that the VTIMEZONE objects in ICS files located in a well defined path scheme and using the ftp protocol sounds a lot like defining a time zone server? I just started reading about IANA so I might have missed it but is IANA already providing a similar service? At first I would have thought that IANA would maintain a big Timezone file(with many VTIMEZONES) or files in a tar(1 VTIMEZONE per file), with versioning included and implementors would download that file and use it as a base for their services. I don't believe that specifying the protocol to transfer the timezones should be included in a registry draft. But if I'm wrong please point me to some references, I'd be interesed in reading them. Thanks --Simon Return-Path: <reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A638F7F522 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83F94142282 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 06112-04 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.99]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFE79142272 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 01:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at (reinhold@curie.fam.tuwien.ac.at [128.130.51.116]) by doob.fam.tuwien.ac.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3) with ESMTP id j688Tawp019713 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:29:39 +0200 From: Reinhold Kainhofer <reinhold@kainhofer.com> Organization: FAM, Vienna University of Technology To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 10:29:32 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.8.1 References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="nextPart1568899.q50FmbMYnv"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <200507081029.35845.reinhold@kainhofer.com> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:29:42 -0000 --nextPart1568899.q50FmbMYnv Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Friday 08 July 2005 03:00, Doug Royer wrote: > Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > > Hello, > > We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The > > results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to > > indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. > > Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of > > CalConnect about the timezone registry draft > > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.t= xt > >): > > > > > > - The paragraphs about POLYGON and AREA should be dropped as they add > > complexity to the draft for a feature that would rarely be used and > > breaks RFC2445. Just two non-related comments about POLYGON from my two-second look at the= =20 draft: 1) The example in section 12 in the draft reads: POLYGON;AREA=3DINCLUDE:43.336600,116.13.370000, What the heck should the second thing mean (I'm not calling it decimal numb= er,=20 because it's no...)? Same for the EXCLUDE... 2) In section 12 there is the sentence Property Parameters: The "AREA" parameter is the only parameter allowed. However, a few lines below, you give the bnf polytzparam =3D area *( ";" "VALUE" "=3D" "URI" ) and the example=20 POLYGON;AREA=3DINCLUDE;VALUE=3DURI:http://iana.org/xxx/America/New_York.= geo POLYGON;AREA=3DEXCLUDE:VALUE=3DURI:http://iana.org/xxx/America/Indiana/K= nox.geo Both clearly also allow the VALUE parameter... 3) If POLYGON is to stay, why not say that if no AREA parameter is given, i= t's=20 assumed to be include?=20 Cheers, Reinhold =2D-=20 =2D----------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria email: reinhold@kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/ * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.a= t/ * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer / KPilot maintainer --nextPart1568899.q50FmbMYnv Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQBCzjlvTqjEwhXvPN0RAoEMAKCdPjHSNsw79FhImqtH8evqHR+yVQCfYvud PYDBnOwGIRNBeXRvV/c/iVA= =p8L7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nextPart1568899.q50FmbMYnv-- Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B8537F51B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9093B14227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 02254-02 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F341142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-141-158-123-76.pitt.east.verizon.net [141.158.123.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j683JMuG028421 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:19:24 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:50:15 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: Registry vs authority Message-ID: <A34B26B9548E8682106B3A4D@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <42CDCC85.3070000@Royer.com> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCC85.3070000@Royer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 03:50:19 -0000 Hi Doug, --On July 7, 2005 6:44:53 PM -0600 Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> wrote: > BEEP profiles can be registered by anyone. I see a similar > process for time zones. Time zone definitions will be registered > so that the definitions can be shared independent of the > authority that originally defined them. Allowing anyone to register timezones will mean that no one will trust the registry. It must be a clear who is in charge of or defining the registry information. You bring up the point that maybe there will be more than one 'official' authority in addition to Olson. In that case I would want to know the source of the data in the registry. One way to do that would be to modify the TZID naming scheme to include the name of the authority. e.g.: tzid = "TZID" tzidpropparam ":" ianatzidprefix "/" tzauthority "/" tzregion *( "/" tzregion ) "/" tzcity "/" tzrev CRLF Giving an example of: TZID:/IANA.ORG/Olson/Indian/Reunion/20050115T112522Z Each authority token would have to be registered and defined by an RFC that receives appropriate peer review. Your current draft would define the 'Olson' authority. -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 901D67F529 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 856E314227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01614-10 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EB87142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-141-158-123-76.pitt.east.verizon.net [141.158.123.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j6836TuG028182 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:06:31 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:37:23 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com>, ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: registery vs server Message-ID: <AD1342568C70BBB57F23D144@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 03:37:26 -0000 Hi Doug, --On July 7, 2005 6:55:11 PM -0600 Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> wrote: >> - Could the concept of registry be clarified more? Isn't IANA used more >> as a > > reference than as a service? Maybe efforts should first be invested in > > defining that registry and then creating another RFC for a timezone > > service (Possible extension to CalDAV?). > > I think that both of these are talking about a Time Zone server and > not a registry. > > Step one is create the registry. Then I think that we can decide > how to write a protocol to get the data as you suggest. > > I am not sure if IANA wants to provide a time zone 'server' anyway. > Right, but currently sections 8 & 9 in the draft describe a mechanism for 'fetching' timezone info using ftp - i.e. a service. Has IANA actually said that they would make the data available via ftp in that way? -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <daboo@isamet.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1D97F529 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8E6142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01090-08 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:10:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from darius.cyrusoft.com (darius.cyrusoft.com [63.163.82.2]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8E7142250 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.1.2] (pool-141-158-123-76.pitt.east.verizon.net [141.158.123.76]) (authenticated bits=0) by darius.cyrusoft.com (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id j682d7uG027637 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:39:09 -0400 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:10:00 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com> To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon Message-ID: <834C47D22E4DF9EE73BA969C@ninevah.local> In-Reply-To: <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.1.1 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 03:10:04 -0000 Hi Doug, --On July 7, 2005 7:00:40 PM -0600 Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> wrote: >> - The paragraphs about POLYGON and AREA should be dropped as they add >> complexity to the draft for a feature that would rarely be used and >> breaks RFC2445. > > It does NOT break 2445. If anyone thinks it does, point out how. The point is POLYGON is not defined in 2445 - it something new and we should have some solid justification for adding new things to iCalendar right now. >> If included in an ICS file, it would break many >> iCalendar file parsers. > > Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you > have some specific reason or bug in the draft > you have not yet stated).. I would like to see a valid use case for POLYGON etc backed up by support from implementers before considering what amounts to a new iCalendar 'feature'. -- Cyrus Daboo Return-Path: <Doug@Royer.com> X-Original-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Delivered-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org (laweleka.osafoundation.org [204.152.186.98]) by leilani.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13F0E7F522 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B52814227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.osafoundation.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (laweleka.osafoundation.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01471-07 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9FE7142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j681COKU003314 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:12:28 -0700 Message-ID: <42CDD2F8.5060902@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:12:24 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: Re: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> In-Reply-To: <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050303000208080501020907" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 01:12:37 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050303000208080501020907 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090503050606070809030308" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090503050606070809030308 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I also forgot. With the 'server' protocol that I was thinking about. You can optionally enter your location and the server returns a list of TZID's that are in that area. (some of this may be on the older iCalendar mailing list. It has been discussed, I forget which list). Doug Royer wrote: > > > Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > >> Hello, >> We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The >> results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to >> indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. >> Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of >> CalConnect about the timezone registry draft >> (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): >> >> >> >> - The paragraphs about POLYGON and AREA should be dropped as they add >> complexity to the draft for a feature that would rarely be used and >> breaks RFC2445. > > > It does NOT break 2445. If anyone thinks it does, point out how. > >> If included in an ICS file, it would break many iCalendar file parsers. > > > Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you > have some specific reason or bug in the draft > you have not yet stated).. > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf-calsify mailing list > Ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org > http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------090503050606070809030308 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 01441-03 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8823142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6810ek4003104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:00:43 -0700 Message-ID: <42CDD038.7060601@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:00:40 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms030903080101010205070504" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: polygon X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 01:00:51 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030903080101010205070504 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040903010000040209050307" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040903010000040209050307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > Hello, > We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The > results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to > indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. > Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of > CalConnect about the timezone registry draft > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): > > > - The paragraphs about POLYGON and AREA should be dropped as they add > complexity to the draft for a feature that would rarely be used and > breaks RFC2445. It does NOT break 2445. If anyone thinks it does, point out how. > If included in an ICS file, it would break many > iCalendar file parsers. Any parser that it breaks is not 2445 compliant (unless you have some specific reason or bug in the draft you have not yet stated).. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------040903010000040209050307 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 31812-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09E2142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:55:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j680tBAZ003049 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:55:15 -0700 Message-ID: <42CDCEEF.6030604@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:55:11 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org, ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050107030902040308060407" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: registery vs server X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 00:55:21 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050107030902040308060407 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070807010007000808070407" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070807010007000808070407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > Hello, > We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The > results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to > indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. > Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of > CalConnect about the timezone registry draft > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): > > - It would be useful to retrieve a time zone so that it covers only a > specified time range (i.e. Most vendors don't care about ranges before > 1970 and it can represent a significant amount of data). > ,,, > - Could the concept of registry be clarified more? Isn't IANA used more as a > reference than as a service? Maybe efforts should first be invested in > defining that registry and then creating another RFC for a timezone > service (Possible extension to CalDAV?). I think that both of these are talking about a Time Zone server and not a registry. Step one is create the registry. Then I think that we can decide how to write a protocol to get the data as you suggest. I am not sure if IANA wants to provide a time zone 'server' anyway. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------070807010007000808070407 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 31346-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F1014227B for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j680oEiw002993 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:50:18 -0700 Message-ID: <42CDCDC6.9080609@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:50:14 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms080505080204000009010407" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: List of registery contents. X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 00:50:25 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms080505080204000009010407 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010008090809070309030007" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010008090809070309030007 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > Hello, > We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The > results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to > indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. > Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of > CalConnect about the timezone registry draft > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): > > > - Should there be a way to list all available timezone names? Or should > the draft be updated when a new timezone name gets added/removed? The registry uses FTP, so issue a DIR command and look. This works with FTP tools and browsers. I do not think the draft should be updated. In fact I think the next rev (coming soon) will not list any in the draft other that examples which may list names that happen to be real. -- Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------010008090809070309030007 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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with ESMTP id 30298-09 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:45:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from royer.com (inet-consulting.com [4.23.9.166]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB01142279 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.168.10] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (authenticated bits=0) by royer.com (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j680isM5002936 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:44:57 -0700 Message-ID: <42CDCC85.3070000@Royer.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:44:53 -0600 From: Doug Royer <Doug@Royer.com> Organization: IntelliCal.com User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040805 Netscape/7.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org References: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> In-Reply-To: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms000509020605080408000508" Received-SPF: pass (royer.com: 127.0.0.1 is authenticated by a trusted mechanism) X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner-Information: Please contact SiteAdmin@INET-Consulting.com for more information X-INET-Consulting.com-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.4 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=AWL, BAYES_00, FORGED_RCVD_HELO X-Spam-Level: Subject: [Ietf-calsify] TZ: Registry vs authority X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 00:45:03 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000509020605080408000508 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060601070508040506010603" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060601070508040506010603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Simon Vaillancourt wrote: > Hello, > We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The > results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to > indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. > Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of > CalConnect about the timezone registry draft > (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): > > - Security issues regarding "who should be updating the registry" should > be addressed in the draft. The issues here is registry versus authority. Nether the IETF or IANA is the authority for time zone definitions. I think that all time zone definitions are a political decisions based on technical input. My idea was that the registry only register time zones and not decide if they are authoritative. BEEP profiles can be registered by anyone. I see a similar process for time zones. Time zone definitions will be registered so that the definitions can be shared independent of the authority that originally defined them. The idea is that the Time Zone definitions (formally called the Olson database) be used as a source for the initial definitions and for updates. I took a tool that was based on 'zic' (a UNIX time zone compiler) that takes the Time Zone database as input and was updated to produce iCal VTIMEZONE definitions. I would give the IANA folks the tool and source so that they can run it and create new versions of the registry when ever the Time Zone database is updated. My intention was that the draft describe the public definition and access methods to the registry. I would think that the process of keeping it updated would be flexible within IANA. I am not sure if I answered that point. I am trying to say that the draft is not a process document for IANA. Specific suggestions welcome! Doug Royer | http://INET-Consulting.com -------------------------------|----------------------------- We Do Standards - You Need Standards --------------060601070508040506010603 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=utf-8; name="Doug.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Doug.vcf" begin:vcard fn:Doug Royer n:Royer;Doug org:INET-Consulting.com adr:;;1795 W. 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port 10024) with ESMTP id 28429-02 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet02.oracle.com (rgminet02.oracle.com [148.87.122.31]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.osafoundation.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B171142281 for <ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org>; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:15:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rgminet02.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j67JFrdZ029337; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:15:53 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet02.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j67JFqqU029308; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:15:52 -0600 Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j67JFq79012477; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:15:52 -0600 Received: from [144.23.219.91] (dhcp-ca-montreal-144-23-219-91.ca.oracle.com [144.23.219.91]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j67JFpoa012467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:15:51 -0600 Message-ID: <42CD7F5B.8030304@oracle.com> Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 15:15:39 -0400 From: Simon Vaillancourt <simon.vaillancourt@oracle.com> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug@royer.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new and clamav at osafoundation.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.7 tagged_above=-50.0 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00 X-Spam-Level: Cc: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org Subject: [Ietf-calsify] draft-royer-timezone-registry-01 comments X-BeenThere: ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: ietf-calsify.osafoundation.org List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/pipermail/ietf-calsify> List-Post: <mailto:ietf-calsify@osafoundation.org> List-Help: <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-calsify>, <mailto:ietf-calsify-request@osafoundation.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:15:55 -0000 Hello, We (CalConnect) sent a time zone questionnaire to many vendors (The results should be available shortly) and preliminary results seem to indicate a great interest in having a standardized time zone registry. Here are some comments from the Timezone Technical Committee of CalConnect about the timezone registry draft (http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-royer-timezone-registry-01.txt): - Security issues regarding "who should be updating the registry" should be addressed in the draft. - Should there be a way to list all available timezone names? Or should the draft be updated when a new timezone name gets added/removed? - It would be useful to retrieve a time zone so that it covers only a specified time range (i.e. Most vendors don't care about ranges before 1970 and it can represent a significant amount of data). - Many client application, when using timezones on a server would benefit greatly if they could map the currently selected Operating System timezone to a registry timezone, some support for time zone aliases could possibly bring a solution to this issue. - The paragraphs about POLYGON and AREA should be dropped as they add complexity to the draft for a feature that would rarely be used and breaks RFC2445. If included in an ICS file, it would break many iCalendar file parsers. - Could the concept of registry be clarified more? Isn't IANA used more as a reference than as a service? Maybe efforts should first be invested in defining that registry and then creating another RFC for a timezone service (Possible extension to CalDAV?). - In the draft the protocol used to transfer the timezones is ftp, many people would prefer http or a caldav extension(as previously mentioned another draft focusing on the "service" part might be interesting). Thanks! --Simon
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