Re: [calsify] JSCalendar: alternative to current all-day events

[Doug Royer <[e-mail]>]

Great - It needs to be documented in the spec.

If it means fuzzy dtstart/duration, that's fine. But say so.
Does it mean "no earlier than dtstart" and "no longer than duration"?
Without knowing, what will get displayed will be different across 
implementations. So far, I would just ignore it, as it has no specific 
meaning yet.

So, not sure what you mean when you say:

   "For years creators of ics files have been trying to put timezones on
   dates. I tell them they can't - they say why? The only answer is that
   the standard says so. They want to flag an all day event as taking
   place in a certain timezone. Setting the start and end to midnight
   doesn't have the same meaning - that is a 24hour event."

So, don't set them to midnight. If you mean Anniversary events, they 
are date-only. That has nothing to do with all day. An anniversary is 
'on that date', not 'all day'. Those can be localtime or TZ specific, 
and may or might not have a dtend/duration.

TZ is not required, and *is* allowed on Date-Time and Date events.

	DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York;VALUE-DATE:19980119

and
	DTSTART;TZID=America/New_York:19980119T020000

and
	DTSTART:19980119T020000

Are all valid. Timezones are *not* required on the events. So users do 
not need a timezone in an ics file. When omitted, those are localtime 
(like new years day and birthdays). So isAllDay does not need to exist 
to specify those.

When you say: "The uis for public calendars need to know the difference 
between a true 24hour event and an all-day event in a certain timezone - 
we display them differently."

I am guessing that a 'uis' is a CUA?

Exactly how will they be displayed differently? An anniversary may 
display differently (it can have no duration). But any other 
start/duration event simply takes up the time on the CUA like any other.

Still confused by "all day" vs any other event that may or might not be 
24-hours in duration.

On 6/18/19 1:26 PM, Michael Douglass wrote:
> Putting aside the  exact representation for the moment there is a need - 
> expressed by calendar users - to represent what they mean by "all day".
> 
> For birthdays etc the current date-only is probably fine (though 
> possibly being able to flag these as anniversary events might be useful).
> 
> However, for public and social events things are different. These are 
> generally known as 'all day' - the start and end may be ill-defined if 
> at all. They also often take place in a specific timezone.
> 
> For years creators of ics files have been trying to put timezones on 
> dates. I tell them they can't - they say why? The only answer is that 
> the standard says so. They want to flag an all day event as taking place 
> in a certain timezone. Setting the start and end to midnight doesn't 
> have the same meaning - that is a 24hour event.
> 
> The uis for public calendars need to know the difference between a true 
> 24hour event and an all-day event in a certain timezone - we display 
> them differently.
> 
> So I think the first issue is to decide whether our users are simply 
> being unreasonable or if they have a genuine unfulfilled need.
> 
> If you want an analogy - we can either see where people walk and then 
> lay down the paths or we can lay the paths and forever repair the grass.
> 
> 
> On 6/18/19 13:50, Doug Royer wrote:
>> On 6/17/19 6:39 PM, Bron Gondwana wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019, at 09:25, Doug Royer wrote:
>>>>   "Indicates whether this event is meant to represent an all-day event,
>>>>     and SHOULD be presented accordingly in a calendaring application.
>>>>     The value of this property is independent of the actual time-span
>>>>     covered by this event."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, an isAllDay could as an example, be 36 or more hours long?
>>>
>>> It certainly could.  This is already very possible with iCalendar, 
>>> e.g. this event here:
>>>
>> (example not included)
>>>
>>> Which is an "all day event" with a duration of 5 days.
>>
>> So, with, or without 'isAllDay' they mean EXACTLY the same thing. What 
>> is the point of 'isAllDay' when with or without it, it means the same 
>> thing?
>>
>> If I am incorrect, what does it mean?
>>
>>
>>
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-- 

Doug Royer - (http://DougRoyer.US)
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714-989-6135