Re: [Casm] [Anima] [homenet] prefix assignment
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Wed, 29 March 2017 23:04 UTC
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To: "Mark Townsley (townsley)" <townsley@cisco.com>, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
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Cc: "homenet@ietf.org" <homenet@ietf.org>, "casm@ietf.org" <casm@ietf.org>, "anima@ietf.org" <anima@ietf.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
Organization: University of Auckland
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Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2017 12:04:54 +1300
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Subject: Re: [Casm] [Anima] [homenet] prefix assignment
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On 30/03/2017 11:14, Mark Townsley (townsley) wrote: > >> On Mar 29, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >> >> >> This discussion started in a private thread, so I'll try to bring people >> up-to-date by repeating and moving around text. >> >> The ANIMA GRASP reference problem Autonomic Service Agent (ASA), is >> to do distributed prefix allocation. This is very much in the space of >> *coordinated* address management. >> >> (My take, BTW, is that CASM should be considered the first spin-off WG >> From ANIMA...) >> >> Mark and Brian discussed how HNCP does prefix distribution within Homenet. > > I was really pointing out that RFC 7695 could be used independent of HNCP. > > HNCP is just one protocol that uses the RFC 7695 distributed prefix assignment algorithm (which actually began as extensions to OSPF before HNCP even existed). True. And I don't see any reason why a CASM system including autonomic service agents shouldn't be used to supply prefixes for use by an RFC7695 implementation. So the various tools can fit together. Brian > > - Mark > >> >> Brian then suggests: >> >> brian> But if the CE includes a little autonomic service agent (ASA) which >> brian> is in the ISP's security domain (not the SOHO domain), it can act for >> brian> HNCP to solicit address space from the ISP. That's the southern side >> brian> of the CASM model and the northern side of HNCP. >> >> I asked a simple question: don't we have DHCPv6 for this? >> >> I also then asked: >> >>> a) the CPE device is now part of the ISP's ACP. >>> That's okay if the CPE device is owned by the ISP and/or the CPE device >>> includes some kind of trusted computation environment. >>> {But a CPE owned by the ISP, might not be trusted by the home owner, >>> so another router in between would be needed, >> >> Brian answered: >>> Really? Why not? >> >> I don't think that the ISP can trust to have code controlled by end users >> running in their ACP domain. >> >> I also think that many end-users will be quite reasonably upset that their >> ISPs can snoop on their internal traffic. This may in fact violate many >> work-at-home agreements; which is often the case of why you see multiple >> routers/firewalls in documents like >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-baker-fun-multi-router. >> >> (Fred had more interesting diagrams in presentations, which I could dig up) >> >>>> b) DHCPv6 PD is already the protocol that solves prefix allocation across >>>> trust boundaries. >> >>> Indeed. That's why we have "PD supported" as a Boolean property of the >>> PrefixManager objective. There's no intention to undermine PD. >> >> Why do I need to run a protocol in order to find if I can run a protocol, >> when DHCP has the same mechanism already. And use of DHCPv6 itself is well >> defined in cable and DSL connections already. >> >>>> I would think that the ISP's DSLAM/BMS/CMTS would have an ASA that deals with >>>> prefixes. It would speak DHCPv6-PD to the south, and GRASP/ASA to the north. >> >>> Yes, the DSLAM is definitely a good place to put one. >> >> >>>> North of the ISP's device would be the ISP's (distributed) IPAM. >>>> GRASP/ASA-Prefix would be the protocol between. >> >>> Anyway, my point is that these approaches (ANIMA, HNCP and PD) are >>> complementary not competitors. >> >> I don't see you saying that. >> >> I see ou trying to extend two internal mechanisms (ANIMA in the ISP, and HNCP >> in the home) such that they interact directly, rather than using PD. You >> say this right here: >> >> brian> But if the CE includes a little autonomic service agent (ASA) which >> >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works >> -= IPv6 IoT consulting =- >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> homenet mailing list >> homenet@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/homenet > > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima >
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Juliusz Chroboczek
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Mark Townsley (townsley)
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Casm] [Anima] [homenet] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Casm] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] [homenet] [Anima] prefix assignment Michael Richardson
- Re: [Casm] [Anima] [homenet] prefix assignment Brian E Carpenter