Re: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework

[Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>]

I am afraid that we are making "Service Instance" more complicated than it needs to be.

Simply put:

An instance is a single copy of the software running on a single physical or virtual server. If you run two copies of the software on the same physical or virtual server, that counts as two instances. When you run two copies of the software on two different physical or virtual servers, that also counts as two instances.

My two cents.
Linda

-----Original Message-----
From: Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 2:07 AM
To: [e-mail]; Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: RE: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework

Med, all,

There needs to be a consistent discussion of this issue with what a 'service instance' actually is.

Looking at the framework draft, it defines a service instance as
"   Service instance:  A run-time environment (e.g., a server or a process on a server) that makes a service instance available  (i.e., up and running).  One service can be accessed through
      multiple instances running at the same or different locations."

I've never seen this definition limited to mean ONE service instance that literally provides one incoming request with a suitable response, but having a notion of multi-homing of services, even recursiveness (e.g., locally dispatching through K8S or similar environments).

To make this more explicit, one could refine that definition as
"   Service instance:  A run-time environment (e.g., a server or a process on a server) that makes AT LEAST ONE service instance available  (i.e., up and running).  One service can be accessed through multiple instances running at the same or different locations." (marking the change in capital, not meant to actually write it in capital in the draft).

With that a 'service instance ID' or 'service instance address' (if one wants to make the 'locator' notion more explicit, while 'ID' is more generic) suffices in my view since we are not capturing a true E2E relationship but are only concerned with the traffic steering at the CATS (overlay) level, aren't we?

Best,

Dirk

-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
Sent: 19 April 2023 08:52
To: Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>; Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]
Subject: RE: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework

Hi Linda,

As we are in early stages of the arch discussion, we need to be careful about the terms we are using as this may imply some arch assumptions. For example, "instance id" may be interpreted as if it always conveys the identity of the exact instance that will provide the service and won't be used/useful for the recursive mode where another dispatcher level will be on path (and which will be responsible for determining the exact instance). For example, many service-specific dispatchers can be hosted in the same node, supplying an id that will identify the dispatcher for a given request would avoid requiring an extra classification operation in the service site edge.

Till that arch discussion happens, I prefer we have a more neutral term that covers both the direct and recursive mode.

Please note that the current definition of the term we are discussing is as follows:

   CATS Binding ID (CB-ID):  An identifier of a single service instance
      or location of a given service instance (CS-ID).  See Section 3.2.

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Cats <[e-mail]> De la part de Linda Dunbar Envoyé :
> mardi 18 avril 2023 16:58 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
> <[e-mail]>; Dirk Trossen
> <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]> Cc :
> [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> [e-mail]
> Objet : Re: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
>
> Med,
>
> Then Instance ID [InstID]? Everyone in the industry understands it
> well.
>
> I think adding the  "Location ID" [ILID] to the name just adds more
> complication & confusion as it needs so much more explanation.
>
> we might incorporate the ILA [Identify Location Address]
> (https://eur/
> 03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%25252&d
> ata=05%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7Cd202a687ecf542f2db2708db4
> 0a4b03e%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C63817484832757765
> 8%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6
> Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KAfIm5D0ZA6s5f%2F8VPq6brX
> rxbD0iJrQn%2BmKcREoFNg%3D&reserved=0
> Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-herbert-ila-
> mobile%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7C83ea0826
> a8f649194d4508db401d4ab5%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C
> 0%7C638174266779200632%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDA
> iLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sd
> ata=87Q%2BiZ1qk4%2FIWeZptST6ixr2zDN1aWjBnyGKOrpR8lI%3D&reserved=0
> ), which was proposed by Facebook a few years ago, into the structure
> of the Instance ID.
>
> Linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] <[e-mail]>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 9:37 AM
> To: Linda Dunbar <[e-mail]>; Dirk Trossen
> <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
>
> Hi Linda,
>
> We do already have a service ID. What we are discussing is the actual
> instance that will provide the requested service. This can be a
> specific service instance or a site that hosts the instance.
>
> Cheers,
> Med
>
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : Cats <[e-mail]> De la part de Linda Dunbar
> Envoyé :
> > mardi 18 avril 2023 16:31 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET
> > <[e-mail]>; Dirk Trossen
> > <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]> Cc :
> > [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> > [e-mail]
> > Objet : Re: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
> >
> > > How about EID - endpoint ID
> >
> > I'm afraid this is too generic and will be interpreted as if the
> > entity having the EID will terminate the connection and process
> the
> > request, while this is not always the case.
> >
> > [Linda] Why not call it "Service ID"?
> > Linda
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cats <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of
> > [e-mail]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2023 9:21 AM
> > To: Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]>; Luigi Iannone
> > <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> > [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
> >
> > Hi Dirk, Luigi,
> >
> > > May it's a nit, but what about
> > > "Instance/Location ID - ILID"
> >
> > Would be OK as well.
> >
> > > How about EID - endpoint ID
> >
> > I'm afraid this is too generic and will be interpreted as if the
> > entity having the EID will terminate the connection and process
> the
> > request, while this is not always the case. Thanks.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : Dirk Trossen <[e-mail]> Envoyé : mardi 18
> > avril
> > > 2023 16:01 À : Luigi Iannone <[e-mail]>; BOUCADAIR
> Mohamed
> > > INNOV/NET <[e-mail]> Cc :
> > [e-mail];
> > > [e-mail];
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Objet : RE: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
> > >
> > > How about EID - endpoint ID - given that it is about an
> endpoint
> > > identifier rather than a service identifier? Whether the
> > endpoint is a
> > > site (then further dispatching an incoming request) or an
> > instance
> > > itself is subject to deployment.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Dirk
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Cats <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Luigi Iannone
> > > Sent: 18 April 2023 15:49
> > > To: <[e-mail]>
> > <[e-mail]>
> > > Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> > > [e-mail]
> > > Subject: Re: [Cats] Next steps with CATS framework
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > On 18 Apr 2023, at 10:32, [e-mail]
> wrote:
> > > >> -  Possibly rename "Binding ID" to "Instance ID" (Could
> > simply make
> > > >> this change unless someone has an issue with it)
> > > >
> > > > [Med] The proposed change does not cover well the case where
> > the
> > > selection output is a site, not the instance itself. "Instance
> > > Location ID" would be OK.
> > >
> > > May it's a nit, but what about
> > > "Instance/Location ID - ILID"
> > > Or
> > > "Location/Instance ID - LIID"
> > >  to better capture that it can be either a service instance or
> > its
> > > location..
> > >
> > > Ciao
> > >
> > > L.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cats mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://eur0/
> > >
> >
> 3.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252F
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> &dat
> >
> a=05%7C01%7Clinda.dunbar%40futurewei.com%7C0d2d0ca72bad417b14d808d
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