Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when importing an IANA module?
Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu> Mon, 16 January 2023 18:56 UTC
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Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 10:56:06 -0800
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To: Benoit Claise <benoit.claise@huawei.com>, "ccamp@ietf.org" <ccamp@ietf.org>, "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
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From: Randy Presuhn <randy_presuhn@alumni.stanford.edu>
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Subject: Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when importing an IANA module?
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Hi - Serves me right for responding before reading all the messages in my inbox. I concur with Benoit's comments. Randy On 2023-01-16 2:49 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Dear all, > > On 1/13/2023 9:22 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: >> Hi - >> >> On 2023-01-13 10:20 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 13, 2023, at 11:25 AM, Benoit Claise >>>> <benoit.claise=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Tom, >>>>> Yes I do think that people outside the IETF may be ignorant of the >>>>> nuances of the way the IETF works and may not realise that a URL >>>>> to the IANA website must be used in preference to an RFC. There is >>>>> more to YANG modules than extracting the code from somewhere in >>>>> order to incorporate it into something. I have even seen RFC >>>>> reference the obsolete list of possibilities in the RFC that set >>>>> up an IANA registry >>>> If this is the case (And Randy supports this), then we should update >>>> RFC 8047. >> >> Benoit's reference to RFC 8047 had me puzzled until I saw Kent's >> response regarding RFC 8407. :-) >> >>> Agreed - as a hold for document update? >>> >>> Currently RFC 8407, Section 3.9 says: >>> >>> For every import or include statement that appears in a module >>> contained in the specification that identifies a module in a >>> separate >>> document, a corresponding normative reference to that document MUST >>> appear in the Normative References section. The reference MUST >>> correspond to the specific module version actually used within the >>> specification. >> >> I agree with Kent's "hold for document update" assessment. The >> difficultly with the existing text is that it correctly reflects >> the concerns that were at the forefront when it was written - >> e.g. making it as easy as possible for developers to get the >> necessary context for implementing a module, but, as far as >> I can recall, the group hadn't thought as deeply about >> registries spun off from an initial document. >> >>> Want to take a swing at it? >> >> Not me. :-) There are competing requirements, and the "best" answer >> will very much depend on each situation. I think the *spirit* of >> the RFC 8407 Section 3.9 is "point to whatever resource will be most >> enlightening to the developer / user." But the letter of the law is >> "point to whatever is needed to generate a tree of normative >> reference dependencies" - that is, use what will be most helpful >> to the people writing the standards. There's a point to both kinds of >> pointers. >> >> When in doubt, my preference is to go whichever way will make it >> harder for implementations to get it wrong. > Agree on the principles, but there is no quick fix. > Look at Med's proposal: > > If an IANA-maintained module is imported by another module, a > normative reference with the IANA URL from where to retrieve the > IANA-maintained module SHOULD be included. Although not encouraged, > referencing the RFC that defines the initial version of the IANA > module is acceptable in specific cases (e.g., the imported version is > specifically the initial version, the RFC includes useful description > about the usage of the module). > > If we want to add an IANA link to update RFC 8407, Section 3.9, a couple > of remarks: > - It's not clear what "a normative reference with the IANA URL" is. > Is it > https://www.iana.org/assignments/yang-parameters/yang-parameters.xhtml? > Or is it > https://www.iana.org/assignments/yang-parameters/iana-if-type@2022-08-24.yang? > The more precise the later, right? > However, the latter, which is a typical example of IANA maintained > YANG module does NOT work, as the revision in the URL changes with any > IAN update > - So this leads to have both RFC and IANA, so > https://www.iana.org/assignments/yang-parameters/yang-parameters.xhtml + > RFC7224 (in the above example) > - Also, we should make more generic for some other SDOs, as IANA is for > IETF only. > And the guidelines are followed by others: BBF, IEEE, etc. > > Regards, Benoit >> >> Randy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >
- [CCAMP] What to reference when importing an IANA … Italo Busi
- Re: [CCAMP] What to reference when importing an I… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [CCAMP] What to reference when importing an I… tom petch
- Re: [CCAMP] What to reference when importing an I… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Benoit Claise
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… tom petch
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Benoit Claise
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… tom petch
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Benoit Claise
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Kent Watsen
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Italo Busi
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Benoit Claise
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Randy Presuhn
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… Benoit Claise
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… tom petch
- Re: [CCAMP] [netmod] What to reference when impor… mohamed.boucadair