Re: Draft minutes from San Diego
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Fri, 20 August 2004 10:44 UTC
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Reply-To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, ccamp@ops.ietf.org
Cc: Tove Madsen <tove@tla-group.com>
References: <000a01c48092$384e90b0$11849ed9@Puppy>
Subject: Re: Draft minutes from San Diego
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:20:36 +0100
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I didn't hear any comments. Tove, did you get any private comments? Otherwise I'll submit the minutes at close of business today. Adrian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> To: <ccamp@ops.ietf.org> Cc: "Tove Madsen" <tove@tla-group.com> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 6:31 PM Subject: Craft minutes from San Diego > From Tove. > > Please send comments on list or direct to her. > > Thanks, > Adrian > > Hi ccamp, > > Here are the minutes from our meeting in SD. Please review, feedback and > changes are appreciated until next Thursday, thanks! > > Special thanks to typers Deborah B, Susan H and Giles H! > > / Tove Madsen > > --------------070301030408020006090705 > Content-Type: text/plain; > name="ccamp minutes rev02.txt" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline; > filename="ccamp minutes rev02.txt" > > CCAMP > ----- > > Agenda bashing - Adrian > ----------------------- > > no new RFCs since Seoul. Waiting for Aug 9th to push a bunch of stuff through. G.709 > with Alex (AD). Will publish 15 RFCs once done. > > Bunch of drafts not being covered today: > > JP's router capability stuff. Need some discussion on list. > > JP's loose path reoptimisation. Is this something we want? interdomain but with > intradomain usage. <10 hands showing have read it. Will go to list to check we're happy > before taking into WG. > > Alarm info. Said on list a while ago that considered it done and considering WG last > call. anyone objecting to last call? No. > > Crankback and route exclusing waiting for multi-domain. Both have implementations. > > Tom and Adrian will sit down this week to work on MIBs. Lack of interest so far. Anyone > MIB-interested willing to help? > > Tunnel trace - no interest shown at all. > > Link bundling - perhaps needs a clarification draft to show what was intended. > > MPLS/GMPLS migration/interworking is something we ought to care about (will be networks > that need to talk and perhaps gradual migration). Needs review and comment from WG. > > Useful new draft on misconnection analysis. Authors planning new rev so now's a good time > to comment on-list. > > Survey for mesh restoration. Fair bit of input, would be useful to get feedback from SPs > who'd be answering the survey and from implementors (who'll want to know what to > implement). Feedback on list or to authors would be good. > > Q (Vishal). Diverse path routing draft? > > A (Kireeti). Have a set of slides on inter-area strategy. > > Milestones - Kireeti > -------------------- > > Going well but got the year wrong! > > There will be one more revision of protection/restoration. > > Minor edtis needed on ASON. > > Will talk later on strategy for inter-whatever. > > GTTP is stuck. People who were driving have driven away. Need to poll authors and WG to > see if there's any interest. if not will take off the charter. > > Minor edits for ASON routing reqs. > > Need to talk about charter. Adrian went over much of work that needs to be done. > > Promised us again that MIBs will be done. Can't progress standards work without MIBs. > Need to close off ASON stuff, multi-region and protection/restoration. Various misc. docs > that are WG docs so we need to decide whether to complete or drop. > > Need to realise how much work we have on our plate before we add more work. > > Clarification required on label allocation for different switching types. Also on how to > take the switching/encoding type into consideration when doing CSPF. Might need to modify > old docs, do new ones, or do "clarifications" doc. > > New work items > -------------- > > MPLS/GMPLS interworking/migration. e.g. two ways to signal a PSC label (MPLS or GMPLS). > Need to work it out and have migration path. Putting on charter will help. > > Inter-domain signalling/routing. Already working on it. Nice to have a work item > explicitly saying it. > > Big one is L1VPN. SG13 have said they're working on it. Want the same relationship with > SG13 as we're trying to forge with SG15. They do reqs, we do protocol work. But who is > "we" - just someone in IETF. One option is a new WG. Other option is to do in CCAMP. If > we do in CCAMP it will take the following (note two issues - is this a good summary of > work to be done, is this what we want to do in which case take to ADs who hopefully will > say no): > > Once we get framework/applicability done then: > > Do protocol work. Will have to liase within IETF (e.g. with L3VPN WG as have VPN > discovery and CE-PE ID exchange docs). Also with ITU-T. Of course if we have routing > extensions then OSPF/ISIS will get involved. > > If we go down this path then we need a design team. > > So plan is : > > 1) take to list to see if have consensus in CCAMP for charter extension. > > seemed enough hands to take to list. > > > ASON > ---- > > Have 3 drafts. 2 gone through AD review. Last one on Alex's "to read" list. Just before > this meeting couple of people pointed out that there's a disconnect with key ITU spec. So > DT needs to sit with these people and figure out what disconnect is and how significant it > is. Will attempt to start discussion this week (face to face). > > > Dimitri - RSVP-TE for ASON > -------------------------- > > refreshed since last IETF. > > 2 discussion points: > > Is the definition of link capability usable in wider scope? > > Can we define the notify message usage in detail? > > Doc has been shown to be stable. Needs editorial review ASAP. > > Aim was to be ready for last call post San Diego. > > > Dimitri - ASON Routing DT > ------------------------- > > Aim is to evaluate routing protocols against ASON routing requirements. > > Need to elaborate the applicability scenarios. DT looking at two scenarios. If anyone has > a good scenario that needs to be addressed they can pass it to the DT. > > Result of evaluation will be integral part of draft. > > First cut at Adrian's website. > > ToC of reqs. > > Needs scenarios and needs user community to feed scenarios in. > > First CCAMP WG doc needed by end of this month so will have to push hard. > > Will be liased with SG15/OIF to get inputs before doing protocol work. Need to focus on > the evaluation work. > > Q (Zafar). One comment regarding template. Would recommend not having reqs section as > already have a requirements doc. If repeated it can become confusing. > > Dimitri - want at least to have pointers to the requirements. That way people have in mind > the scope of the architecture. Structure of doc may change. > > > Don Fedyk - Transport review of LMP. > ----------------------------------- > > Aim is to facilitate ITU/IETF communication. Issue with discovery is involves databases > used to control optical networks. > > LMP discovery is there to find a TE link. > > Documents ITU discovery terminology. > > Idea here is to document "secret decoder ring". > > changes: > > 1) Clarified G.7714 > > 2) TE link definition. > > 3) General clarification. > > Think is useful for IETF people to understand where ITU-T discovery procedures are and > vice-versa. Hence requesting is WG doc. > > Q (Vishal) - any attempt to work on discovery procedures or does this just clarify > definitions? > > A (Don) - just informational. Stories on either side aren't complete yet. So will live > until those are solidified. Not aiming to define here. > > Q. (Vishal) - Think it is a good doc. Is there any work to unify the procedures or do > procedures here to mirror ITU work? > > A. (Kireeti) - first thing is identifying the secret decoder ring. Show diffs between ITU > and IETF. Second is to start series of liasons to SG15 (or whatever) to figure out if we > fix it, they fix it, or work together. So get better picture of how to proceed. But right > now need to understand each other. > > Adrain - have heard comment about it being good and useful from many people recently. > fits in charter. would like to see it as a WG doc. show of hands! > > handful of hands. (Adrian thinks reasonable). Nobody saying should not be WG doc. Take > to list. > > > Wesam Alanqar - ITU-T SG 15 > --------------------------- > > Various links to liason info. > > Picture of optical control plane (ITU-T SG-15 Q14/Q15) > > ITU-T wants to thank CCAMP - especially ASON reqs DT for capturing reqs for link-state > routing. Q14 wants to extend this. Analysing OSPF/IS-IS/PNNI for use in ASON. > Encouraging work with different standards bodies to look at implications for routing > protocols. Have template for this. > > Q14 thinks a cross-body DT may be useful to look at use of IETF routing protocols. > Similar to the ASON routing reqs. DT. Various things to look at. > > Recent docs finished in ITU-T: > > G.7715.1 on Link state reqs for ASON > G.7713 call connection mgmt. > > Meeting Nov 1-5 in Berlin. IETF welcome to come. Contact Kam Lan for more info by 24/9. > Contributions by 25/10. > > Q. (Zafar). Last IETF had discussions on OIF also. > Do chairs want to comment? > > Kireeti - what do you want to talk about? > > Q. (Zafar) What's the feel of liason with OIF? Is it progressing? > > Kireeti - No formal liason relationship with OIF. Been communicating. OIF has asked for > formal liason. Figuring out what needs to be done on each side. Most interesting is to > synchronise routing work. ITU relationship is good - ITU does reqs, IETF does protocol > work and liase back. Would like to do same with OIF either formally or not. Form of > relationship still to be figured out - but again want OIF to give us reqs, we do protocol, > they say if is good. avoids redoing work. > > Q. (Monique) - OIF meeting last week. Trend towards OIF/ITU alignment as well as > OIF/IETF. will be contribuition to that effect. > > Adrian - we'll try to nail down the lacuna in comprehension for requirements after > meeting. > > > Protection drafts - Adrian > -------------------------- > > 3 drafts. Been through WG last call and marked up. With chairs (Kireeti) to check > markups are fine before pushing forward. > > > Dimitri - RSVP-TE extns for e2e GMPLS-based recovery > ---------------------------------------------------- > > v01 submitted in may. > > have addressed issues raised on list: > > 1) mis-ordering during secondary LSP full instantiation (8.3) > 2) preempt resource of lower pri LSPs when protecting LSP activated (10). > > Updates since v00 addressing concerns/expectation. > > Need to check sec 13 (external commands). > > Check Implementations status out there, external commands still open. > > Once that issue closed then we can go to last call. > > Also had editorial review already. > > Adrian - so not quite ready for last call? > > Dimitri - we should see whether impl. of section 13 is also there then respin with or > without that section. > > Q (Zafar) - Later on will work on inter-as recovery. would be good if this doc addresses > intra-region. is that (or will it be) stated in the doc? > > Kireeti - base spec doesn't say so won't start now keep separate. > > Q (Zafar) - Issue on reoptimisation of bidirectional LSP. > > Adrian - not sure this draft is relevant to that. Worth having discussion, but distinct > from this. > > > Lou Berger - Extensions to GMPLS RSVP graceful restart > ------------------------------------------------------ > > Arun's draft. Lou's reordered a couple of slides. > > Merged draft (following consensus from Seoul). (draft-aruns and draft-rahman). > > Major change is addition of support for improved scalability. In Aruns original draft > every piece of state had to be sent. Now can use summary refresh to decide which pieces > to resignal. Way this is done is that node adj. to restarting node can send back path > message from restarting node so restarting node can recover the state it originally > advertised. Big step forward from (RFC)3473. In 3473 no way for ingress to recover > state. As compared to prev. version only sends state that is needed. Use summary refresh > for this. Have added recovery path summary refresh so restarting node can just look at > stuff it hasn't kept across restart. If adj nodes support this extn (can discover that) > then can use these procedures. > > To do: > > 1) Need to agree message type > > 2) discussion amongst authors about adj node startarts. If two adj nodes restart then how > does 2nd one know the 1st is in restart condition. Impacts sending of path msg and > recovery labels. This is a broader problem than just this draft. Applies to 3473 > independent of these extns. So issue is both what to do and where to do it. > > Next steps: > > Authors think ready for WG doc. Chairs? > > Kireeti - how many people have read this. Scattering. > > How many thinks it should be WG doc - most of them > > How many opposed - zero. > > some support - take to list. > > Kireeti - one comment on adj node restart. Most other protocols don't care about this. > Idea is that if lots of nodes restart at once then your network is screwed anyhow. With > OSPF nodes abandon restart if that occurs. BGP, OSPF, IS-IS and prob LDP do this. > > Lou - not all that difficult to do. One prob is where put recovery stuff in path msg. > Other issue is timer adjustments if you see your neighbour restarting. Could argue is in > 3473 already - may just need clarification. But good comment. > > Adrian - chairs in violent disagreement over Kireeti's last comment. Highlight is that > restart is complex as well as important. There are people out there who do a lot with it. > > > Zafar Ali - Node ID based RSVP Hello > ------------------------------------ > > Incorporated feedback from mailing list and Seoul discussions. > > Remaining work is minimal. > > Draft is short/straightforward. > > >=5 implementations. > > Some inter-op testing done. > > want to do WG last call. > > Adrian - who's has not read the draft who is responsible for MPLS/GMPLS impl. Lou. > > Adrian - have met all criteria to go forward. Authors happy, draft stable, comments dried > up. So will debate last call on list. > > > Kireeti - Multi zone > -------------------- > > 2 drafts for this. Issue is what is a zone - IGP area, AS, tech domain, protect domain. > > Also want to have one way to do this - esp as both drafts were RSVP-TE based. > > Single common doc now. Many iterations/rewrites. Now one mechanism with diff options. > > have functional docs: > > 1) Framework (not on slide) > 2) signalling > 3) path computation > 4) (not a doc) BOF on PCE to look at other ways of doing this (run by Adrian and JP). > > Need more docs: > > 1) Applicability - what options to use for a given req. > 2) Stitching. Similar but different to nested LSP. Does it become a separate doc. > Certainly need doc on it. > > Debate on protection/restoration and diverse routing inter-domain. Aim is to get base > spec out. Once stable work on diverse path setup across domains. > > Vishal - have had discussion on list. Basic req in reqs doc is diverse path routing. > Could do solution for single path routing that might not work at all for diverse paths. > Suggestion is to break up items and push diverse path routing etc. into "advanced > applications". Needs to be taken into consideration for signalling/routing. Need to look > at problem together and not separate. > > Kireeti - what we've done (successful so far). Did base spec for signalling and had > separate DT to do protection/restoration. Base spec for routing, and added on stuff > afterwards. If you can give us a concrete example of where this won't work then we'll > look at it. > > Vishal - not just me. SPs want to link it together. > > Kireeti - fine. That's one opinion. > > Vishal - not resolved yet. > > JP - this has been taken into consideration. scenarios 1 and 2 for path computation > consider this, so already part of base spec. Not true to say it has been excluded. > > Vishal - but not being discussed. Draft says it is advanced application. This shouldn't > be. > > JP - not being excluded. > > Kireeti - not taking off the agenda. Will do it but want to get base spec out. Want to > leave room in spec for other applications (not just diverse path routing). But doesn't > mean we have to spec that out now. If JP's done the work to ensure it's possible then > Kireeti's happy. > > Vishal - I raised Qs on list which weren't answered. Especially regarding scalability. Is > not even clear how single path works. > > Arthi - what do you mean by "let's get base spec out"? Currently docs aren't even WG > docs. I think Vishal is saying at least we need to move forward to some extent with base > docs. They're just individual contributions right now. > > Kireeti - that's what I'm saying. Not vishal > > Adrian - nobody's saying we'll take unprotected to RFC before we even look at protected > stuff. We're rather saying we want to understand unprotected before we understand > protected since latter is built on former. > > Vishal - issue is diverse paths. Doesn't work if you build on single path approaches. > Diverse paths is a key issue - so consider at the beginning, don't retrofit. > > JP - that was the case. > > Zafar - to answer Vishal there are enough cases to show that base stuff works and is > extendible for future. Crankback is an example. Lots of stuff needs to be done later, > and need stake in ground for base work with enough hooks. Nothing is excluded today. > > Dimitri - can we make it clear that as docs are extended they take G of GMPLS into > account. > > Lou - question re stitching? > > Kireeti - details have to be done. That's not a question. Question is is this new draft > or existing drafts. > > Vishal - are we going to poll the WG? > > Kireeti - can I finish my slides first? > > Kireeti again: > > how to progress: > > Have an idea of what docs we need. > > Reqs came from TEWG. > > In light of proposed solutions should revisit the TEWG reqs. and check reqs are > reasonable. > > Sep docs for sep. functions (signalling/path computation/poss. rechability). > > Progres each doc separately - but may send for RFC as a block. > > Once have base spec done will look at re-optimisation and diverse paths. Want to do base > spec first. If in our evaluation that isn't a major retrofit then will progress base spec > while working on rest in parallel. If turns out is a major retrofit then will halt > progress and retrofit first. > > Vishal - my point still stands. > > Kireeti - we've heard it several times. > > Vishal - so what are you going to do? > > Kireeti - nothing. > > Vishal - but WG hasn't been polled. > > Adrian - WG chairs exist to judge consensus. We believe we have judged it and the right > way to do this technically. You're welcome to disagree and build an opinion against it. > > Vishal - want to get work done not build opinions. > > Adrian - so do we. > > Vishal - so what will we do about diverse paths? > > Adrian - keep draft alive as a private draft. Then have basis when WG ready to take on. > That's good. > > Kireeti - you might be missing that the difference in what you're saying and what we're > saying is just sequencing. We want to do a then b. you want to do in parallel. If we > find that base doc needs major retrofit then we'll halt it. > We need to have a tech reason for doing this, and don't have a base doc yet. > > Vishal - so can keep individual docs going? > > Kireeti - yes, renew it every 5 months and 29 days. > > > Adrian (with chair hat removed) > ------------------------------- > > Had couple of proposals for inter-region/inter-AS TE a while back. > > Ended up with a useful, but long, draft. > > Have split into diff parts. JP and Arthi will talk about soln. specific texts. > > This draft is just framework to point to what you could do. > > Key is defn of a domain: > > seems necessary to extend this beyond just IGP areas and ASes to protection domains and > zones of limited TE visibility. So domain is a loose concept. > > Aim is not to recommend solution but to break problem down to show different ways of > signalling, path computation and routing. > > Describes some "easy" advanced features and applicable to MPLS/GMPLS. > > Not attempting to look at harder issues (e.g. diversity, OAM, P2MP). > > Not making judgements as to why you'd pick one method rather than another (or documenting > those methods/solns). > > TEWG produced two reqs docs. had quite a bashing and rework. Question is whether we're > happy to freeze the docs as RFCs or keep alive as do solution work in case we find > ambiguities/contradictions and need to fix them. Adrian prefers to say they're done but > keep them alive in case need to fix. > > Issue on GMPLS reqs (TEWG reqs were MPLS only). > > Issue of bringing complex functions in. Option might be to start work on partner draft > for framework for more complex functions. > > Authors are asking if we need a WG framework, if this is the right WG framework and if > this is the time to make it WG doc. > > Dimitri - if we combine TEWG reqs with GMPLS reqs does that mean we have separate reqs. > Or do we just extend TEWG reqs. for GMPLS. Or do we merge MPLS/GMPLS drafts? > > Adrian (speaking as an author) - think we need to understand if GMPLS reqs are different. > If they're not in existing reqs drafts and are not contradictory then don't care much > where we do them (but 3rd draft might be good for GMPLS extns to requirements - allowing > people to do MPLS alone). PSC will probably be done with pointer to MPLS. > > Richard Rabbat - interdomain OAM you're saying have reqs for LSP ping or poss. GTTP. > Would GTTP solve problems? Want to see if we can increase importance of GTTP in WG. > > Adrian - people have commented that one issue with MPLS was that OAM was left until later > as a req. We need to start to look at multi-area OAM reqs. May take us down GTTP path. > Not clear that because we have req that anyone will want to work on GTTP. > > Richard Rabbat - agree but may need to keep alive. > > John Sadler - thanks for draft, helps identify gap on ASON. Additional req for ASON is > identified. Not sure where to capture as has ramifications to signalling. > > Adrian - expect over time to have overlap in ASON DT and this work. > > Q.(?) - discussion on converging inter-area and intra-area. WG has decided not to. I > support sep draft for GMPLS. Makes docs much more scalable/readable. 2nd q - you said > that the diversity/reoptimisation isn't part of base spec. But should include as is > already being talked about in converged signalling draft. > > Lou - for each MPLS solutionn doc (JP's)? > > Arthi - read more carefully. Not all reqs are solved. But want a single solution doc for > MPLS and GMPLS. > > Anon - liason to ITU would be good. > > Kireeti - how many have read? Good number. How many like it? good number. Only vishal > thinks is not ready? > > step 1 is take to mailing list but note consensus in room. > > will do for other docs once presented. > > > Arthi inter-domain MPLS TE RSVP-TE extns > ---------------------------------------- > > As requested by WG at IETF59 split doc into 3. This is one of the solution docs > (signalling). JP's draft does path computation. Will have applicability doc ready for > IETF61. > > Idea was to only look at signalling aspects for interdomain TE LSP setup. Looks at > contiguous, nested and stitched LSPs. > > Domain def. is aligned with framework (i.e. very flexible). > > Intention was GMPLS/MPLS applicability (packet and non-packet). May be some gaps. > > Cover other aspects - ERO processing, FRR, re-optimisaton (just talks about signalling > issues wrt re-optimisation). > > 3 signalling methods (contig, nested, stitched). Needs two bits to ask for contiguous LSP > or stitched LSP. Latter is set by head end LSR of segment (not e2e LSP). Has a > corresponding bit in RRO attributes. > > stitching: > > enables packet LSP to get right label exchange between egress and penultimate nodes. > > don't want to have label exchange over LSP segment hop. > > allows ingress to be notified that egress has done the right thing. > > similarity to hierarchy - uses non-adj signalling and all signalling extns. Can use > segment as FA-LSP (but is a special case as can only carry one LSP). > > differences are one-to-one nature. Lack of label exchange over segment. no b/w > reservation on segment. Either have b/w or you don't - so is exact match. > > Need to clarify similarity/diffs in doc. > > 1st question is how head end can control downstream choice of signalling method. Some > discussion on mailing list (incl CCAMP). Discussed in context of inter-area reqs. No > conclusion on thread - are we OK with that? If not OK then what do we do? > > 2nd question is GMPLS. Need to clarify this better. Do we need any more signalling for > it? > > 3rd question is whether we need a stitching draft. Doc talks about stitching but might > need clearer applicability. should that be in this doc or in a sep draft. > > Next steps: > > No major changes expected as basic issues finalised so would appreciate more feedback. > > Since ready (bar a few clarifications) want to know if chairs/WG think is ready for WG > doc. > > Vishal - good to have some clarification of stitching in this doc. Later we can see if > need a diff doc. Same for GMPLS - put more stuff in for now. > > Adrian - thanks Vishal, you've just made the same 2 comments the chairs wanted to make. > > Alia - need more detail on stitching. perhaps in a sep section. For instance nowhere > does it say how you correlate intra-domain LSP to inter-domain LSP. > > Adrian - will ask authors to tidy up GMPLS, break stitching out into sep section. Bring > back for consideration as a WG doc. > > > JP - path computation methods > ----------------------------- > > Proposes two methods for packet/non-packet LSPs. > > Aim is to fulfil both inter-area and inter-AS reqs from TEWG. > > overview of two scenarios: > > 1) per-domain path computation - do path on per-area basis. Head end to first ABR, 1st > ABR to next, last ABR to egress. Could be areas, could be ASes. Can discover next-hop > dynamically, using heuristics, policy etc. Or can specify loose hops at head end or > abstract strict hops (list of ASes etc.) > > 2) End to end shortest path computation using PCE. Head-end sends request to PCE. > Recursively construct shortest path where tree is rooted at tail end. Welcome to come to > PCE BOF. Draft talks about how to signal from head end to PCE. > > Note that both scenarios can work together. So can have policy to control set of ASes but > use PCE intra-AS (for example). > > Want to restate that we don't require flooring across domains. No impact on scalability. > > Have proposed optimisation to flood inter-AS TE info. Reduces probability of call setup > failure (increases as load increases and as you have more ASBRs) so can reduce call setup > time. ALso reduces number of ERO expansions and gives more optimal path selection. Note > no IGP impact. > > Need to elaborate more on applicability - will do this in separate draft. > > Again want to point out that inter-AS and inter-area are very similar (only difference is > inter-ASBR link in the first case). > > Nothing too specific on FRR except for inter-ASBR link and ABR/ASBR failures. > > separate draft for re-optimisation of contiguous TE LSPs based on scenario 1. Proposing > soln for scenario 2. > > For stitched/nested this is a local reoptimisation intra-domain. > > Will discuss more tomorrow about how to signal from head end to PCE. 3 ideas already on > IGP-TE capability (in CCAMP, ISIS, OSPF). > > SPs will come up with ID for next IETF on BCP for security/confidentiality. > > next steps: > > New ID on applicability. > > Progress signalling and path computation IDs (and make WG docs). > > Q (Vishal). Not so sure that need to standardise optimisation algorithm. Specifically as > long as can exchange parms between ASBRs that should be enough. Need to discuss more on > Thursday. > > JP - will discuss more on Thursday. What we want to agree is method for sending requests. > On PCE itself can use CSPF and various optimisation criteria. No need to standardise. > > G (Vishal) - does inter-area optimisation apply to 1 and 2? > > JP - if you don't flood TE info between ASBRs then only have visibility to boundary node. > So applies to both. > > Dimitri - there is a PCE BOF. What is impact on PCE BOF on CCAMP? If doesn't get > progressed as BOF then should we still progress. Can we progress this independently of > PCE BOF outcome? > > Adrian - yes. > > Q (ECI Telecom) - regarding applicability statement, will there be recommendation on impl. > issues (e.g centralised/distributed PCE). Or will this stay open? Often standards say > which of options is most endorsed. > > JP - like RR for BGP can be put on a router that also does forwarding, or not. so we're > just describing fn of PCE - depends on your network design as to where you put it. > > Kireeti - so are you asking if applicability spec will recommend centralised or > distributed. Ideally in applicability spec will just say "here are options, and here are > scenarios that work for each of them". Won't have global recommendation. > > Richard - your ASCII figures are hard to follow. Can you please clean them up or do PDF? > > JP - we'll fix it. > > Adrian - need to suspend decision on moving this forward until after PCE BoF. > > > Tomohiro Otani - TE parms to be exchanged > ----------------------------------------- > > Summary: > > fits charter item on signalling/routing mechanisms for paths spanning multiple > areas/ASes/providers. > > clarifies need for dynamic/static info exchange and reqs. for TE parms. > > SP proposal. KDDI and NTT already interconnect at L1, L2, L3. Need to set up paths while > hiding internal topology. > > Assumption is 2 GMPLS ASes. AS1 knows its topology and AS2's border routers/reachability. > > Once create LSP from ingress to egress. If AS 1 only knows AS 2 reachability then how > does it get shortest path in AS 2. AS 2 may send back path err if constraint can't be > met. So may need non-shortest path in AS1 to then get to border router which meets > constraint in AS2. > > Of course have whole bunch of constraints (switching capability, encoding type, bandwidth, > SRLG etc.) > > GMPLS border nodes announce end-pt reachability with the constraints met to those > end-points. > > To get resilient LSPs may need globally significant SRLGs. > > Next steps: > > 1) Add GMPLS EGP reqs. (so need BGP experts). And will look at extra load here > (suggested by Adrian). May need light mechanism for dynamic exchange of info between > ASBRs. > > 2) Go for WG doc (need to do 1 first). > > 3) Will look at any BGP extentions > > 4) Will look at how to get SRLGs that are globally consistent (bit assignments). > > Adrian - is this really limited to GMPLS? Or can it apply to MPLS TE? > > Tomohiro - limited to GMPLS, but could expand to MPLS. > > Adrian - bit of a contradition between reqs. here and in TEWG docs. In as much as > discussion here on distribution of TE info inter-domain we are going to have to resolve > the contradiction. Adrain thinks is good. JP doesn't. > > Zafar - next steps slide. would like to tie this to GMPLS reqs before doing solution. > > Tomohiro - yes would like to do GMPLS reqs first. > > Arthi - I think we need to start discussion about whether BGP would req this for MPLS as > well as GMPLS. > > JP - It's not that I think this isn't good. Am just trying to reflect what the TE reqs > draft says. Aim is not to leak summarised TE info inter-domain. > > JP - the draft seems to flood quite a lot of unsummarised info. Big req of SPs is to > preserve confidentiality. How do we sort that out? > > Tomohiro - we don't want to flood all info to other ASes. So we need summarisation in > each AS. > > JP - do you think can both summarise to preserve confidentiality and have enough info to > be useful? > > Kireeti - as I understand it this isn't summarisation. It's more passing switching caps > so don't attempt what isn't possible. Is quite useful for L1VPN. Could be used from CE to > CE in L1VPN. Answers first q on leaking constraints. RTs etc. can be used in VPN. So > can be used inter-AS and in L1VPN. > > Susan Hares - thought I heard mention of ORFs. > > Kireeti - no, just RTs - for L1VPN. > > Susan - so we haven't settled on RTs, ORFs etc.? > > Arthi - can we say that this is basically an optimisation to per-domain path computation > to reduce crankback? > > Kireeti - yes. > > JP - that's exactly back to my question. To reduce crankback you have to summarise info > from other AS, but then you break confidentiality and scalability. > > Adrian - so potential tradeoffs and we need to work on them. > > Anon - there could be networks that want to transfer all the data across ASes (e.g. > research networks - where 2 ASes don't mind sharing info and security is achieved in diff > fashion). Providing network summary isn't sufficient. Need to provide more info to get > optimal path across ASes. > > Adrian - come to PCE BoF and we'll debate this. > > Vishal - are we going to work on reqs. for GMPLS TE? Is anyone doing it? > > Kireeti - yes, but nobody is doing it yet. > > > Dimitri - GMPLS for L2LSPs > -------------------------- > > Changes since last version: > > Explain motivation for L2SC LSPs (RFC3473) > > Generalised to any L2 (ATM/FR/ETh etc.) > > New L2 TSPEC FLOWSPEC etc. > > L2 label spaces and encoding all details are in the doc. > > General feeling that's worth spending cycles on this. > > Think it's a good basis for the work. > > How is consensus wrt WG doc? > > Kireeti - GMPLS charter covers this implicitly, but want to make it explicit and then take > this to WG doc. > > > L1VPNs > ------ > > Progressing "under care of CCAMP". Submitted applicability. Idea is to show how we use > GMPLS and deltas from "normal" GMPLS. > > Few issues in framework. > > In summary existing drafts cover most of applicability. Identified 7 items that may need > more work. > > Next steps - covered some of this at start of meeting. But need to discuss on L1VPN list > and CCAMP list. Want to make L1VPN part of CCAMP. 100 subs on L1VPN list and expecting > protocol work to be minor. Good links to ITU-T etc. Want feedback. > > Hamid - good work has been done on L1VPN for applic/framework/auto-discovery/use of GMPLS. > > Anon - want to observe that am looking forward to huge market for lambda services and more > and seems like a good idea to do in a different WG. Can we do that without huge admin > overhead. More issues will come up once this gets publicised. > > > Lou - segment recovery > ---------------------- > > biggest change from last meeting is that draft became WG. Also bunch of minor fixes (some > coming from list discussions). > > 2 comments not integrated: > > 1) more words needed on RESV processing of notify request object. Good text for path so > need equivalent for RESV. > > 2) internal discussion on FRR interaction. Need more words there. > > One other comment - know of 2 implementations; various stages of maturity. Would love to > hear of others. > > Zafar - 2 things I'd like to see: > 1) info on local recovery > 2) applicability for FRR. Pros vs technique described here. > > Lou - if you can enumerate reqs and contribute text that'd be great. As for applic > statements they are in sep docs, so perhaps we need companion draft. > > Richard - adrian sent email re misconnections being living list against which protection > mechanisms are tested. Have you checked against that? > > Lou - no. Might be dimitri and others have. > > Dimitri - is ongoing. In next release will have conclusion. > > > Zafar - graceful shutdown in MPLS-TE networks > --------------------------------------------- > > reqs - this is problem that NSPs try to solve today using ad-hoc mechanisms. Problem is > resources in nodes/TE links. Want to upgrade node. So how do we divert traffic to other > places in network so that we can do the maintenance. Currently SPs play with IGP metrics > etc. Problem is that can be inconsistent. Also not applicable to inter-area or inter-AS. > This ID puts togeher framework for existing mechanisms to do graceful shutdown of TE link > or node. > > Draft is straightforward. Talks about IGP and RSVP-TE mechanisms. Issue is IGP isn't > applicable to inter-area or inter-AS. RSVP-TE only sends info to nodes along path. > > changes are minor and rely on existing framework. > > RSVP-TE mechanism > > IGP based mechanism. > > Have had feedback and will publish next rev by end of aug. > > can we be WG doc? > > Arthi - not entirely fair that this is based on existing docs. Loose hop reoptimisation > not defined elsewhere. Might be better to add here than to add elsewhere and then claim > we are using other mechanisms. Also there are existing mechanisms which are used today > for graceful turn-off of links at least in GMPLS networks. > > Zafar - all fair comments. Can take comments re other draft offline. > > Adrian - let's discuss offline once have a respin and take it from there. > > > >
- Craft minutes from San Diego Adrian Farrel
- Re: Draft minutes from San Diego Adrian Farrel