Re: [Cellar] Conversation about a NON-IANA request in Matroska

"Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com> Wed, 18 August 2021 23:07 UTC

Return-Path: <superuser@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2BC43A1D11 for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.098
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fZqhOiYKG2tN for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ua1-x933.google.com (mail-ua1-x933.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::933]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD5A3A1D0E for <cellar@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-ua1-x933.google.com with SMTP id a4so1717634uae.6 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:06 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=OG3WIFUy6CF6K0blWgiJlb7xnvzRNcwW16b+OV2vrTs=; b=N7YcxHEYsiqb60O9yrIRfm/GilL1sFUdGVLNo/Njwn2fygmwGYHmtQMRwBH1zvytR7 egPctuCWqhWLAwAZzMx+znF/6xYiAui5tztWPDcGchE+/+oBaCz865oiOu4L9TMn/uYc 6tr7WA6b3EVO9RnGI9jaNWUSImCr5YcVP1R0q7VUmgxDu8Tkb4nv/r7eOOBjbt6AmQU6 F+B20nRBBaTqRU3x5xuiS0jFMgT6cEyDuT1pKF17haNTKqtePuScKt0HrzfQ5XRwqhEI vT/5uFrSXicq5e6NxMfFuhikrxswWuCCT/wPbK8VGppjprzfCB3kfvxmKbR4PEhbS8nB /0KQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=OG3WIFUy6CF6K0blWgiJlb7xnvzRNcwW16b+OV2vrTs=; b=Wi1053cw9/kjfdb3bm0umlF0Sxnv+yoDnMnMcnWyF8xdzPi+biIkfNQIder+kkk0Yv z/D0vZ9YvTs8nsfkqGjAHF9E6QnlNWIQwVSQi2a1FvlNX2Z18rCym2oylX42RXnmnQXV CSmViINtM9AiPpS9qwePbrHtgynHvC3DjH/JJuEtCYE3TMzUZxiXCFi6pVyx0RabfWgo Gi9fTaUf0U0XfSwVUtd8kmALSGvDSwCYVohwUYqjN8BxhIMn7hAO4JobWEiBQRlPEGOd J1HjFWDDa6EnG1EbC+QOm2g8jhK+kz4xKjDAKmV6OD3DjW4o0GbHOmYSWkJ+yl8xZcto usrA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533S5nfVQ+xDwceRGb+5rIMIaNQKRGvAdgpIk+lUAakIfY6feEdL Qf5erEpgomCSt9hqMg/jKMop2Vj/Ev3mGHcVQs4=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyYoWNbGtrCk2kOdLs1tQyA7F5H0GJRku8qG3+UjCR9sOC/Ox2eeNvg4kpqrIel3sjPHwfT1NVzpxH4asEUbY0=
X-Received: by 2002:ab0:205a:: with SMTP id g26mr9158804ual.101.1629328023764; Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:07:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAKKJt-ceukRCPUK=DTvDxDBPw-ddROX-snfZQ-BatSkgVZ0-qw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-ceukRCPUK=DTvDxDBPw-ddROX-snfZQ-BatSkgVZ0-qw@mail.gmail.com>
From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:06:52 -0700
Message-ID: <CAL0qLwY6V8eVG56ckhy3GFDwW61-6OD9_h=X-vDWFySM0e3B9A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
Cc: Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>, Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar@ietf.org>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000014420205c9dd7ebb"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/RWVL2XkUMY9zpYD4N8EpjcktMWY>
Subject: Re: [Cellar] Conversation about a NON-IANA request in Matroska
X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/>
List-Post: <mailto:cellar@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 23:07:12 -0000

Hi there, sorry for the delay.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 10:18 AM Spencer Dawkins at IETF <
spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, Murray, the backup expert reviewer for Media Types, and our
> responsible AD,
>

You flatter me.

Cellar is working on the Matroska specification, and one issue we've
> tripped over is that Matrosks implementations have traditionally used
> unregistered MIME types such as "video/x-matroska" and file extension
> ".mkv", which have never been registered in the Media Types registry, and
> (for extra credit) use "x-dash" notation that someone is likely to ask us
> to change, if we were registering something now.
>
> Specifically, the media types mentioned in
> https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pull/529/files
> have been in use for up to 19 years, and the sense of the Github discussion
> is that actually registering them now won't have much impact on anything.
>
> (You should be tagged in that PR, and that's where most of the discussion
> I've seen has happened)
>
> And we'd prefer not to start that conversation during AD Evaluation, IETF
> Last Call, or (especially not!) during IESG Evaluation and formal IANA
> review.
>
> As this work moves forward in the IETF stream, we wanted to ask, is this a
> thing we should talk with you about, sooner rather than later?
>

Well, glad you asked.

In the spirit of the media types registry, I'm inclined to say we'd rather
have something registered under what's perhaps a bit of a non-ideal name so
that people can interoperate from a common, registered reference, than not.
This is why the rules for the vendor tree are so loose.

So as your AD, I'd be prepared to argue in favor of registering the x-dash
name, and including a sentence or two about why we're making an exception
with respect to BCP 178 this time.  Of course, we can confirm with the
actual media type reviewers that I'm not crazy here.

-MSK