IETF Logo Mail Archive

Re: [Cellar] Film: color handling - container or codec?

wm4 <nfxjfg@googlemail.com> Thu, 02 February 2017 09:03 UTC

Return-Path: <nfxjfg@googlemail.com>
X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA041293EB for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 01:03:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.999
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=googlemail.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8GqI796YDUr7 for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 01:03:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5C98127077 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Thu, 2 Feb 2017 01:03:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id v77so2712039wmv.0 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 01:03:21 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sAzfSXJGxnxnjXvXl0zgsfaBno4u/xHXTVWh6tJBhzk=; b=ure1GbmYCbX1GsOKB//usFqqUzFQ0RVLoUAMTmxY1vR0Hfki2lbMBvrLlvbpDsOITu XsokVKiw66xw15Lbrx2/pQXzEt/qS4kAb7p7uTthE6LmoTkFTPzepvzNu3zViwc1O/c9 BSuFpkng5lByPz12wf/FNeQKMsoTV7644Kyl1xZasgpDJp9M6pm7CfeFtOPvLllfqKJH hRAqaqvIpHusFqjcKzjKtM0WQeWfbbVK15ILjv4JXPbmPGz7XCLyxE4b+i5u7ZxgAhQ5 TMP5OR2DuxGQqf+71Le0Re25EjVninO9MZa1apu4Ak7kTiVbsLlQTb00QKz0COnRIIJ/ hWrQ==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sAzfSXJGxnxnjXvXl0zgsfaBno4u/xHXTVWh6tJBhzk=; b=JlgCgVS13dJjK9QRv42Ih3/XXC/BceA9+d4mIIBBo1JN0RYt8LOzZ8oqhvwOhUB0ZU tkYw+bANlc9q2fw85ozxv4FhM8XiksPy7YPVdPRZ88JkqHTHh8oqBwoDrLX4SDda4f8H 9iTYRNVoekO7b4OylIe4Ue2r1lV8IrAT6XL/VnTbcwM9QmFdxyNWKGWRo+yw/3zLueUM 09/2mKCBJFS5JHLbsYjmTfDbp1Ra4poT8WPmUT2JzTXbi3JiFpNxxY1lRJH7oBjBKsHk 12MaOoP24bX+F1EHFIZ1/PUiQproPq/KcTG5YTiTf9+eEyrkD5t/uKMLuWWgPQqJo0VU AGMA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJ5E0cYy9hHMwxmhLtgJ4nsPb1hz/IzaqJxBjwRB3lqVkJ+/Tl1vdp1QgWACzhJrw==
X-Received: by 10.28.136.68 with SMTP id k65mr28614844wmd.48.1486026197035; Thu, 02 Feb 2017 01:03:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from debian (p4FF02F5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [79.240.47.95]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id m188sm32798309wma.0.2017.02.02.01.03.16 for <cellar@ietf.org> (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 02 Feb 2017 01:03:16 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 10:03:19 +0100
From: wm4 <nfxjfg@googlemail.com>
To: cellar@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20170202100319.27f573dd@debian>
In-Reply-To: <58525F89.5000600@das-werkstatt.com>
References: <58525F89.5000600@das-werkstatt.com>
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.14.1 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/T-SbhElENd5mW0dxD6XEaavbbzs>
Subject: Re: [Cellar] Film: color handling - container or codec?
X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/>
List-Post: <mailto:cellar@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2017 09:03:23 -0000

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 10:16:57 +0100
"Peter B." <pb@das-werkstatt.com> wrote:

> =======================
> container or codec - or both?
> =======================
> 
> 
> All 3 versions have their pros and cons, but I think having it in both
> causes more trouble than does good (see below).

Using the codec has another advantage: parameters can change at runtime.

I have seen Matroska files which have both codec and container aspect
ratio set, and for which the codec aspect ratio changed at runtime.
There are barely two pieces of software which handle this the same way.

On the other hand, no matter what you do, getting multiple
implementations to handle codec/container mismatch the same way has a
high chance of failure, because they could support the codec and
container hints to a different degree.

I think ideally, container hints should either not be defined, or if
they are, reflect the codec hints exactly. If Matroska can contain
midstream parameter changes, this would require Matroska to have a
mechanism for reflecting them in the container metadata.

v2.23.0 | Report a Bug | By Email