Re: [Cellar] Sample rate 0 in FLAC

Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc> Sat, 01 October 2022 14:04 UTC

Return-Path: <michael@niedermayer.cc>
X-Original-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cellar@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF6C7C14F73D for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:04:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.604
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.604 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eOVhbRunw3j2 for <cellar@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:04:43 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay8-d.mail.gandi.net (relay8-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc4:8::228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EA3CC14CE38 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 07:04:42 -0700 (PDT)
Received: (Authenticated sender: michael@niedermayer.cc) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 464C71BF207 for <cellar@ietf.org>; Sat, 1 Oct 2022 14:04:39 +0000 (UTC)
Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2022 16:04:38 +0200
From: Michael Niedermayer <michael@niedermayer.cc>
To: cellar@ietf.org
Message-ID: <20221001140438.GR4321@pb2>
References: <CADQbU691597X5+ZCm2hMpPA-7uHwE2MoeT6uGRVyuSSSor-78Q@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg="pgp-sha256"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="72pTQ1Q5L511SwPT"
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <CADQbU691597X5+ZCm2hMpPA-7uHwE2MoeT6uGRVyuSSSor-78Q@mail.gmail.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/dT9rL5hCrGeID5wCSwak8fFJHpE>
Subject: Re: [Cellar] Sample rate 0 in FLAC
X-BeenThere: cellar@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission <cellar.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cellar/>
List-Post: <mailto:cellar@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cellar>, <mailto:cellar-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2022 14:04:47 -0000

On Sat, Oct 01, 2022 at 11:17:06AM +0200, Martijn van Beurden wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> There is a discussion on Hydrogenaud.io about the significance of a
> sample rate of 0 in FLAC files here:
> https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,123069.0.html
> 
> The specification as it has been on the FLAC website always forbade a
> sample rate of 0 in the streaminfo metadata block, no such restriction
> has been written down for uncommon sample rates in the frame header.
> 
> FLAC is already in use for various non-audio applications, such as
> storing laserdisc data (see ld-decode) or other non-audio signals.
> Perhaps a sample rate of 0 could be used to signal non-audio data. Of
> course these signals also have a sample rate, but for laserdisc, the
> sample rate lies outside what can be stored by FLAC.
> 
> Any thoughts?

I can think of 2 cases here
1. Data is not along a time axis
2. Data is along a time axis

an example for 1. would be a gpg key or an email, data from it is not
sampled over time
I think a sample rate of 0 could make sense for this but iam not sure
if this has ever been put in flac

for 2. lets say data recorded by some means other than audio, maybe radar
maybe lidar, maybe some Temperature vs. time. ...
If there is no correct sample rate the data becomes more difficult to
interpret because what is the relation between each data sample and time
then ?

Even worse it becomes if one has 2 streams/files. with 0 sample rates
how are these to be lined up if their relation matters ?

thx

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out
of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford
settlements. -- The RIAA