Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hybrid Key Encapsulation Mechanisms
"D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to> Mon, 19 February 2024 15:33 UTC
Return-Path: <djb-dsn2-1406711340.7506@cr.yp.to>
X-Original-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACA2C14F71E for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 07:33:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.904
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.904 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VdntTQaE-RA9 for <cfrg@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 07:33:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: from salsa.cs.uic.edu (salsa.cs.uic.edu [131.193.32.108]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0FC4EC14F71A for <cfrg@irtf.org>; Mon, 19 Feb 2024 07:33:28 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 32016 invoked by uid 1010); 19 Feb 2024 15:33:27 -0000
Received: from unknown (unknown) by unknown with QMTP; 19 Feb 2024 15:33:27 -0000
Received: (qmail 711484 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Feb 2024 15:33:18 -0000
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:33:18 -0000
Message-ID: <20240219153318.711482.qmail@cr.yp.to>
From: "D. J. Bernstein" <djb@cr.yp.to>
To: cfrg@irtf.org
Mail-Followup-To: cfrg@irtf.org
In-Reply-To: <ulmKU2u_kvu_S0xjGVM_HYaMGcwLgRPrH_AzXEoVu9dvkjFlpi8nZpNwLJAYWJhCmCOStd1bvMMNNTy9EIvSeHFjWbPjnycE9ODmmu3pyQg=@wussler.it>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/84TUdtD0w12qFSNPpdV5ArS4-IE>
Subject: Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hybrid Key Encapsulation Mechanisms
X-BeenThere: cfrg@irtf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Crypto Forum Research Group <cfrg.irtf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mailman.irtf.org/mailman/options/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cfrg/>
List-Post: <mailto:cfrg@irtf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mailman.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg>, <mailto:cfrg-request@irtf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:33:33 -0000
Aron Wussler writes:
> SHA3-256(counter | ct_DHKEM | ss_DHKEM | ct_PQKEM | ss_PQKEM | ctx)
> only valid with fixed-size artifacts. Simpler structure.
It's shorter, but a closer look shows that it unnecessarily triggers
security concerns and efficiency concerns:
* Omitting public keys makes security reviewers worry about the
security questions raised in https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/708 and
https://eprint.iacr.org/2021/1351.
* Not having the internal H() wrappers around the hybrid public key
and the hybrid ciphertext makes people worry about memory usage on
small devices (as we saw in earlier messages).
These are weak arguments, but I think it's better to just get rid of
them. The CPU-cycles counterargument doesn't stand up to examination:
hashing the data is orders of magnitude cheaper than transmitting it.
> - Does not make security analysis simpler (you still need to argue
> about artifact size)
Reviewing "Just use fixed-size primitives" is easier than reviewing
rlen() implementations. Since you mention RSA: fixed-size RSA encodings
are easier than variable-size RSA encodings.
More importantly, a combiner that simply asks for IND-CCA2 KEMs is
easier to review than a combiner that makes ad-hoc assumptions about
KEMs, such as the QSF combiner inside X-Wing.
Even more importantly, N different combiners mean N things that need
security review, so we should be trying to end up with N as small as
possible. There's a clear argument that this shouldn't be N=0 (see
https://blog.cr.yp.to/20240102-hybrid.html) but I don't know why N=1
shouldn't be achievable. Allowing something like X-Wing is going to
force N upwards.
> - Could be replaced with a practical instantiation in
> draft-ounsworth-cfrg-kem-combiners instead of making a 5th draft.
Looks to me like trying to do something like chempat-00 as diffs to
kem-combiners-05 would take more space than chempat-00 does, so having
it as a separate document seems reasonable.
---D. J. Bernstein
- [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hybrid … Simon Josefsson
- Re: [CFRG] [EXT] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ… Blumenthal, Uri - 0553 - MITLL
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Aron Wussler
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Aron Wussler
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… John Mattsson
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Aron Wussler
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… D. J. Bernstein
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Ilari Liusvaara
- [CFRG] Re: Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… John Mattsson
- [CFRG] Re: Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Simon Josefsson
- [CFRG] Re: Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… John Mattsson
- [CFRG] Re: Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Simon Josefsson
- Re: [CFRG] Chempat: Generic Instantiated PQ/T Hyb… Loganaden Velvindron