Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt
"Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev" <smyshsv@gmail.com> Wed, 23 September 2020 07:51 UTC
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From: "Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev" <smyshsv@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 10:49:24 +0300
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To: Scott Fluhrer <sfluhrer@cisco.com>
Cc: CFRG <cfrg@irtf.org>, Björn Haase <bjoern.m.haase@web.de>
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Subject: Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt
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Thanks a lot, Bjoern! Scott? Are you happy with the changes?.. Regards, Stanislav On Mon, 21 Sep 2020 at 18:43, Björn Haase <bjoern.m.haase@web.de> wrote: > Hello Stanislav, > > sorry for the late reply. > >Scott, Bjoern, are you happy with the changes? > > I've only shortly reviewed the change regarding the assumption set and I > think that the reader interrested in all of the intricated details will > anyway have to dig through the papers., I think that the accuracy for the > level of an RFC document to refer just to "GAP-CDH" is fine, in my opinion, > given that the references to the papers are now integrated in the document. > > Yours, > > Björn. > > Am 12.09.2020 um 12:49 schrieb Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev: > > Scott, Bjoern, are you happy with the changes? > > пт, 11 сент. 2020 г. в 20:41, Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com>: > >> I have just uploaded version -13 which contains suggested text from >> >> Michel by way of Bjorn. >> >> >> >> Given we have per-user M and N as an option I decided not to add >> >> per-protocol, but if Scott thinks it's a good idea I'm happy to add >> >> it: not sure it will be used. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 9:03 AM Björn Haase <bjoern.haase@endress.com> >> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Dear Watson, >> >> > >> >> > If I understood correctly Manuel and Michel's proof, the reduction to >> the GAP version of CDH problem refers only to the "perfect-forward >> security" aspect of the SPAKE2 proofs. >> >> > >> >> > To my best knowledge, the game-based proof regarding the "only one >> password guess per session" feature does rely on "Discrete Logarithm >> Password-based Chosen-basis Computational Diffie-Hellman assumption" >> (DLPWBCDH) (i.e. without the "GAP"). >> >> > >> >> > IIRC there is some small margin between the CDH and DLPWBCDH but there >> is no need for the GAP assumption when carrying out the proof in the >> game-based models, except for the forward-security aspect which to my >> knowledge requires the DDH oracle. >> >> > >> >> > For the UC proofs, OTOTH the GAP assumption appears to be mandatory, >> IIUC, since this proof strategy also implies forward security. >> >> > >> >> > I'm in close contact with Michel for the CPace draft preparation and >> I'll ask him what specific wording he would be recommending for your >> document, the next time I'll be talking to him. >> >> > >> >> > Yours, >> >> > >> >> > Björn. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Mit freundlichen Grüßen I Best Regards >> >> > >> >> > Dr. Björn Haase >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Senior Expert Electronics | TGREH Electronics Hardware >> >> > >> >> > Endress+Hauser Liquid Analysis >> >> > >> >> > Endress+Hauser Conducta GmbH+Co.KG | Dieselstrasse 24 | 70839 Gerlingen >> | Germany >> >> > Phone: +49 7156 209 377 | Fax: +49 7156 209 221 >> >> > bjoern.haase@endress.com | www.ehla.endress.com >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Endress+Hauser Conducta GmbH+Co.KG >> >> > Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRA 201908 >> >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Gerlingen >> >> > Persönlich haftende Gesellschafterin: >> >> > Endress+Hauser Conducta Verwaltungsgesellschaft mbH >> >> > Sitz der Gesellschaft: Gerlingen >> >> > Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRA 201929 >> >> > Geschäftsführer: Dr. Manfred Jagiella >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Gemäss Datenschutzgrundverordnung sind wir verpflichtet, Sie zu >> informieren, wenn wir personenbezogene Daten von Ihnen erheben. >> >> > Dieser Informationspflicht kommen wir mit folgendem Datenschutzhinweis ( >> https://www.endress.com/de/cookies-endress+hauser-website) nach. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Disclaimer: >> >> > >> >> > The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity >> to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or >> privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use >> of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons >> or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive >> this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any >> computer. This e-mail does not constitute a contract offer, a contract >> amendment, or an acceptance of a contract offer unless explicitly and >> conspicuously designated or stated as such. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> >> > Von: Cfrg <cfrg-bounces@irtf.org> Im Auftrag von Watson Ladd >> >> > Gesendet: Montag, 24. August 2020 14:42 >> >> > An: Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) <sfluhrer=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> >> >> > Cc: crypto-panel@irtf.org; <cfrg@ietf.org> <cfrg@ietf.org>; Russ >> Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>; cfrg-chairs@ietf.org >> >> > Betreff: Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: >> draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt >> >> > >> >> > On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 3:20 PM Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) >> >> > <sfluhrer=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > I looked through it (the Crypto20 crypto conference was last week, >> that kept me busy); it looked good, with two nits: >> >> > >> >> > Thank you very much for reviewing it so quickly! >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Section 3.1 states “Lets G be a group in which the computational >> Diffie-Hellman (CDH) problem is hard”. Actually, if you go through the >> security proof, it appears that the slightly stronger “S-PCCDH assumption” >> is required. While it is plausible that, for any group where the CDH >> assumption holds, so does the S-PCCDH assumption, however, this is not >> proven. >> >> > >> >> > So recently >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feprint.iacr.org%2F2019%2F1194.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=TwffvrezUzSnJeaPaahlF08H744LL1mxocrTksHdvo0%3D&reserved=0 >> reduces to Gap >> >> > Diffie-Hellman. I think I should revise that sentence of 3.1 and >> >> > discuss in security considerations section exactly what is assumed and >> >> > that elliptic curves in the draft are widely conjectured to satisfy >> >> > it. Hopefully this won't confuse anyone more than necessary. >> >> > >> >> > > This draft still relies on a fixed (per group) M and N values; as we >> have argued before, having a global N and M value menas that breaking one >> discrete problem would mean breaking the entire system globally, and so >> that arguably too attractive as a target. Assuming that the authors aren’t >> willing to use a Hash2Curve method to generate N, M values, I would >> recommend that a paragraph be added to the document outlining the situation >> (and perferably giving a procedure where individual protocols can select >> their own N, M values) >> >> > >> >> > Section 5: >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fid%2Fdraft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-11.html%23rfc.section.5&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=TSxHJGOCsecYGoYp4OwBajfg%2FXt%2F9aLbokD%2F7iKprK0%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > has M and N per user, following one of the papers in the references. >> >> > I think a per-protocol option makes sense to add, but it would be nice >> >> > to know if it would be used. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > From: Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer) >> >> > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 7:50 AM >> >> > > To: Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev <smyshsv@gmail.com>; Russ Housley < >> housley@vigilsec.com>; crypto-panel@irtf.org >> >> > > Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>; cfrg-chairs@ietf.org >> >> > > Subject: RE: [Crypto-panel] Fwd: [Cfrg] I-D Action: >> draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > I’ll take a quick look at it. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > From: Crypto-panel <crypto-panel-bounces@irtf.org> On Behalf Of >> Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev >> >> > > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2020 4:40 AM >> >> > > To: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>; crypto-panel@irtf.org >> >> > > Cc: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>; cfrg-chairs@ietf.org >> >> > > Subject: Re: [Crypto-panel] Fwd: [Cfrg] I-D Action: >> draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Dear Russ, dear Crypto Panel experts, >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Any volunteers for a quick review of the updated version of the >> SPAKE2 draft (before commencing a RGLC)? >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Regards, >> >> > > >> >> > > Stanislav >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 20:02, Alexey Melnikov < >> alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > On 11/08/2020 17:47, Alexey Melnikov wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > Hi Russ, >> >> > > >> >> > > On 11/08/2020 17:43, Russ Housley wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > > We recommend the following two protocols to be selected as >> «recommended by the CFRG for usage in IETF protocols»: one balanced PAKE - >> CPace, and one augmented PAKE - OPAQUE. >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > What was the point of the selection process if we are going to >> publish the ones that were not selected too? >> >> > > >> >> > > It is needed by Kitten WG for one of Kerberos documents. The idea is >> to publish it with a disclaimer that it predated PAKE selection process and >> was not selected as one of the finalists. >> >> > > >> >> > > To clarify: we don't intend to publish any other PAKE candidates that >> weren't finalists. >> >> > > >> >> > > Best Regards, >> >> > > >> >> > > Alexey >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Russ >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > On Aug 11, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev < >> smyshsv@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Dear Crypto Panel experts, >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Could someone please take a quick look at the updated version (taking >> into account the reviews made during the PAKE selection process)? >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > Regards, >> >> > > >> >> > > Stanislav (on behalf of CFRG chairs) >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > ---------- Пересылаемое сообщение --------- >> >> > > От: Watson Ladd <watsonbladd@gmail.com> >> >> > > Дата: пн, 10 авг. 2020 г. в 23:29 >> >> > > Тема: Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt >> >> > > Кому: <cfrg@ietf.org> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > This fixes the comment on missing identities received during the PAKE >> >> > > competition which was the only one I found. >> >> > > >> >> > > I think it's ready for RGLC. >> >> > > >> >> > > On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 4:27 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote: >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> >> > > > This draft is a work item of the Crypto Forum RG of the IRTF. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Title : SPAKE2, a PAKE >> >> > > > Authors : Watson Ladd >> >> > > > Benjamin Kaduk >> >> > > > Filename : draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt >> >> > > > Pages : 16 >> >> > > > Date : 2020-08-10 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Abstract: >> >> > > > This document describes SPAKE2 which is a protocol for two >> parties >> >> > > > that share a password to derive a strong shared key with no risk >> of >> >> > > > disclosing the password. This method is compatible with any >> group, >> >> > > > is computationally efficient, and SPAKE2 has a security proof. >> This >> >> > > > document predated the CFRG PAKE competition and it was not >> selected. >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-irtf-cfrg-spake2%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=lfQZ%2Bk58AZtuJDwwoL3kp9h%2B1t6eVh%2BO4IhcPF%2BJA9k%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftools.ietf.org%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=M%2B1R6InBuduuxEehA%2Fmz99McvXt8KnILIj9S2bRBifs%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=9IrixLVgOePrXOr4FXNIgwa8x9Jgpldlq5tr55o%2FGgI%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=TI3p%2F1EM4Un4No8%2BEY6KsExVBQyMXIlg6OzWoZFi8%2FU%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> >> > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org >> . >> >> > > > >> >> > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.ietf.org%2Finternet-drafts%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691624309&sdata=JLdVl7lCQLtmHJiKclYtzm81ubwwTgRe29PJMfhIPtY%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > > Cfrg mailing list >> >> > > > Cfrg@irtf.org >> >> > > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcfrg&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691634306&sdata=oteAqHxVYJtxizv9OX5GP3qfiAuWTpgeZXxZPIlj3z8%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > -- >> >> > > "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". >> >> > > --Rousseau. >> >> > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > Cfrg mailing list >> >> > > Cfrg@irtf.org >> >> > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcfrg&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691634306&sdata=oteAqHxVYJtxizv9OX5GP3qfiAuWTpgeZXxZPIlj3z8%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > Crypto-panel mailing list >> >> > > Crypto-panel@irtf.org >> >> > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcrypto-panel&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691634306&sdata=w0Bf%2F8e3bInXUJ8FckOi5dK%2FRPdY879EkrXP02iaSR4%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> >> > > Cfrg mailing list >> >> > > Cfrg@irtf.org >> >> > > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcfrg&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691634306&sdata=oteAqHxVYJtxizv9OX5GP3qfiAuWTpgeZXxZPIlj3z8%3D&reserved=0 >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". >> >> > --Rousseau. >> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> > Cfrg mailing list >> >> > Cfrg@irtf.org >> >> > >> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcfrg&data=02%7C01%7Cbjoern.haase%40endress.com%7C8359743fd98a4c38077608d8482b33bd%7C52daf2a93b734da4ac6a3f81adc92b7e%7C1%7C1%7C637338697691634306&sdata=oteAqHxVYJtxizv9OX5GP3qfiAuWTpgeZXxZPIlj3z8%3D&reserved=0 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". >> >> --Rousseau. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing listCfrg@irtf.orghttps://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg > > _______________________________________________ > Cfrg mailing list > Cfrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/cfrg >
- [Cfrg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.txt internet-drafts
- Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] I-D Action: draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2-12.… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Scott Fluhrer (sfluhrer)
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Björn Haase
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Watson Ladd
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Björn Haase
- Re: [Cfrg] [Crypto-panel] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-… Stanislav V. Smyshlyaev