Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC
"Dang, Quynh H. (Fed)" <quynh.dang@nist.gov> Wed, 18 November 2020 18:20 UTC
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From: "Dang, Quynh H. (Fed)" <quynh.dang@nist.gov>
To: "rsw@jfet.org" <rsw@jfet.org>, Gilles VAN ASSCHE <gilles.vanassche@st.com>
CC: CFRG <cfrg@irtf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 18:19:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC
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Hi R, I am not aware of a protocol where the output from an extract step: PRK is saved and the expansion step gets executed later to generate keys. Both steps get completed to produce key(s) and one of these keys can be used as a key derivation key to derive more keys later if there is a need like that. When you use KMAC, one of the output keys can be used as a key derivation key to derive keys. The point of KMAC or SHAKE as a KDF is that it covers the extraction and expansion functionalities in its sponge's construction already. Regards, Quynh. ________________________________ From: CFRG <cfrg-bounces@irtf.org> on behalf of rsw@jfet.org <rsw@jfet.org> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 12:53 PM To: Gilles VAN ASSCHE <gilles.vanassche@st.com> Cc: CFRG <cfrg@irtf.org> Subject: Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Gilles VAN ASSCHE <gilles.vanassche@st.com> wrote: > This solution is not incompatible with the case where an intermediate > value PRK is required: (salt ; IKM) is padded to take a whole number > of blocks, and PRK is the state value after absorbing it. I'll admit I am stating the obvious, but: while this proposal works technically, it requires access to implementation internals that may not always be available. (In particular: the SHAKE API, to my knowledge, does not include the ability to save and reload state. I'm aware that some implementations *do* provide this functionality, but strictly speaking it violates the contract. This could lead to implementation issues down the road.) Best, -=rsw _______________________________________________ CFRG mailing list CFRG@irtf.org https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irtf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fcfrg&data=04%7C01%7Cquynh.dang%40nist.gov%7C7fd1eb001fff4cd915f408d88beb2dd6%7C2ab5d82fd8fa4797a93e054655c61dec%7C1%7C1%7C637413189515656868%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=4lRQ1TXrcTOetxwjoMaZCA8sp78WgrfUgJitNAImC3s%3D&reserved=0
- [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC John Mattsson
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC John Mattsson
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Jonathan Hammell
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Ruggero SUSELLA
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Gilles VAN ASSCHE
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC rsw
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Dang, Quynh H. (Fed)
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC rsw@jfet.org
- Re: [CFRG] Extract-and-expand with KMAC Gilles VAN ASSCHE