Re: [clue] Proposal to combine capture scene and capture set

[Paul Kyzivat <[e-mail]>]

On 3/9/12 5:40 PM, Roni even wrote:
> Mary,
>
> I have no problem with having just capture scene and taking out the
> capture set. This is a very minor issue in the discussion.
>
> I hope we can have an agreed text on simultaneouscapabilitiesand capture
> scene entries and how a consumer selects a configuration
>
> As for the MCU case you mention, my view is that this is not a CLUE
> issue but a general MCU problem of source selection by participants and
> you can see some discussion in draft-lennox-mmusic-sdp-source-selection-03

That sort of source selection works once the media is being sent to you. 
But I don't see how its helpful for decoding an advertisement and 
deciding what captures you want to receive.

Or are you a tight coupling between that draft and CLUE, so that it 
provides the select functionality?

	Thanks,
	Paul

> Roni Even
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* [e-mail] [[e-mail]] on behalf of Mary
> Barnes [[e-mail]]
> *Sent:* Friday, March 09, 2012 23:21
> *To:* Paul Kyzivat
> *Cc:* [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [clue] Proposal to combine capture scene and capture set
>
> Paul,
>
> I'm trying to discern if we have consensus on the basic question of
> whether people are okay with replacing the term "capture set" with
> "capture scene" using the definitions that Mark has below. Paul, can you
> please clarify two things for the WG:
> 1) That you are speaking as an individual in the threads (i.e., you are
> not trying to evaluate the thread for consensus)
> 2) I *think* you are disagreeing with Mark's proposal, but that's not
> clear to me. I think you are suggesting that "Capture Scene" be defined
> to have a more information than just capture scene entries. Is that correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Mary.
> - as WG co-chair
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Paul Kyzivat <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>     On 3/5/12 2:16 PM, Duckworth, Mark wrote:
>
>         At the interim meeting, there was some support for combining the
>         concepts of “capture scene” and “capture set” into a single
>         concept. So
>         here is a rough proposal for doing that, essentially using the term
>         “capture scene” to replace the previous term “capture set”, and
>         eliminating the original separate capture scene concept.
>
>         Definitions:
>
>         *Capture Scene: a structure representing the scene that is
>         captured by a
>         collection of capture devices. A capture scene includes one or more
>         capture scene entries, with each entry including one or more media
>         captures.
>
>         *Capture Scene Entry: a list of media captures of the same media
>         type
>         that together form one way to represent the capture scene.
>
>
>     One of the reasons I preferred "Capture Scene" to "Capture Set" is
>     that "set" implied to me that it is *only* a set of captures. But in
>     fact there are already other attributes in addition to the set of
>     captures (such as the purpose), and there will probably be more as
>     we proceed.
>
>     To me, "Capture Scene Entry" conveys some of that same assumption.
>     Namely, that a Capture Scene" is made up of a number of Capture
>     Scene Entries, which seems to exclude other attributes that are not
>     Capture Scene Entries.
>
>     It would feel more natural to me to have a Capture Set that is a set
>     of media captures. (That is, what was previously called a Capture
>     Set Entry.) And then define another term for a grouping of these
>     Capture Sets. I'm having trouble coming up with a term for that
>     which matches the intent well, but as a swag, how about Capture Set
>     Alternatives.
>
>     So then you would have a logical structure something like:
>
>     - Advertisement
>     - Capture Scene (one or more)
>     - Description
>     - Purpose
>     - Area of Scene
>     - Capture Set Alternatives (one or more)
>     - Capture Set (one or more)
>     - Capture
>
>     I don't think Capture Set Alternatives is the right term. I think I
>     am hampered in finding a better term by not really having a crisp
>     understanding of the reason for having this grouping. Its partly
>     about alternatives in that there is an expectation that for a
>     particular medium you would choose only one. But its not about
>     alternatives in that you need to choose audio and video
>     independently. Also, that is only an approximation - there seem to
>     be expected cases when entries from more than one video entry would
>     be chosen.
>
>     In my experience, when its hard to find a good term it usually means
>     that the thing being named is not sufficiently defined and likely
>     can be factored into more meaningful pieces.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Paul
>
>         Text for section 6.2 Capture Scene (was 6.2 Capture Set):
>
>         A capture scene represents, for example, the video image of a
>         group of
>         people seated next to each other, along with the sound of their
>         voices,
>         which could be represented by some number of VCs and ACs in the
>         capture
>         scene entries. A middle box may also express capture scenes that it
>         constructs from media streams it receives.
>
>         A media provider arranges media captures in a capture scene to
>         help the
>         media consumer choose which captures it wants. The capture scene
>         entries
>         in a capture scene are different alternatives the provider is
>         suggesting
>         for representing the capture scene. The media consumer can choose to
>         receive all media captures from one capture scene entry for each
>         media
>         type (e.g. audio and video), or it can pick and choose media
>         captures
>         regardless of how the provider arranges them in capture scene
>         entries.
>
>         A capture scene may include more than one type of media. For
>         example, a
>         capture scene can include several capture scene entries for video
>         captures, and several capture scene entries for audio captures.
>
>         (This text would be worked into section 6.2, not replace it
>         completely.
>         Other things in section 6.2 and elsewhere would need to be
>         edited to be
>         consistent with the new terminology in this proposal)
>
>         Regards,
>
>         Mark
>
>
>
>         _________________________________________________
>         clue mailing list
>         [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>         https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/clue
>         <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue>
>
>
>     _________________________________________________
>     clue mailing list
>     [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/__listinfo/clue
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue>
>
>