Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP
"Mcdysan, David E" <dave.mcdysan@verizon.com> Wed, 10 November 2010 02:34 UTC
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From: "Mcdysan, David E" <dave.mcdysan@verizon.com>
To: Lars Eggert <lars.eggert@nokia.com>, David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 21:34:33 -0500
Thread-Topic: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP
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Cc: Ingemar Johansson S <ingemar.s.johansson@ericsson.com>, "GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)" <jose_javier.garcia_aranda@alcatel-lucent.com>, httpstreaming <httpstreaming@ietf.org>, "dispatch@ietf.org" <dispatch@ietf.org>, "conex@ietf.org" <conex@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP
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Lars, Thanks for sharing this post and reference. I try to make a similar point in section 4.3 of http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-mcdysan-conex-other-usecases-00.txt Some operators provision sufficient capacity at bottleneck points and/or make productive use of restoration capacity so that congestion rarely occurs. A much larger potential benefit than that offered by short term congestion control occurs if a means to motivate time shifting of traffic to off-peak periods can be developed. Thanks, Dave ________________________________________ From: conex-bounces@ietf.org [conex-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Lars Eggert [lars.eggert@nokia.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 9:02 PM To: David Singer Cc: Ingemar Johansson S; GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER); httpstreaming; dispatch@ietf.org; conex@ietf.org Subject: Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP On 2010-11-9, at 18:31, David Singer wrote: > It is that there are two ways to solve a real-time bandwidth need. One is to reserve bandwidth, manage QoS and so on; one gets protocols and systems like diffserv, ATM, and so on. The other is simply to have 'too much' of the resource. Though it feels wrong, the latter often ends up being the cheaper and easier solution. So, for example, voice over IP is getting used quite a lot, and to good effect, on the internet today not because we have successfully deployed any bandwidth reservation or QoS management protocols and systems, but because the available bandwidth is, for the most part, greatly in excess of what is needed, and the systems can adapt in real-time to what they get (rather than asking for what they want). The same is true for multimedia delivery; the complexity of RTP + TCP friendliness + QoS management is not worth it compared to having adaptable end-systems and overall more bandwidth than needed. Fully agreed. Folks who like pictures can take a look at https://fit.nokia.com/lars/talks/2008-mit-cfp.pdf, which gives much the same argument. Lars
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Lars Eggert
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP ken carlberg
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mcdysan, David E
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Kathy McEwen
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Gunnar Heikkilä
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Gunnar Heikkilä
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mark Watson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Roland Bless
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Ingemar Johansson S
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Dirk Kutscher
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Van Caenegem, Tom (Tom)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Kathy McEwen
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Toby Moncaster
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Toby Moncaster
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Kevin Mason
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Woundy, Richard
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP STUART VENTERS
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Toby Moncaster
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP STUART VENTERS
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP STUART VENTERS
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP STUART VENTERS
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP STUART VENTERS
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Toby Moncaster
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP ken carlberg
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Kathy McEwen
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Toby Moncaster
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Hadriel Kaplan
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Henry Sinnreich
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Janet P Gunn
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP GARCIA ARANDA, JOSE JAVIER (JOSE JAVIER)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Kevin Mason
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Ben Niven-Jenkins
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Ben Niven-Jenkins
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mike Hammer (hmmr)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP David Singer
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP Adam Roach
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Benjamin Niven-Jenkins
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Benjamin Niven-Jenkins
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Marshall Eubanks
- Re: [conex] [dispatch] [httpstreaming] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP DIAZ VIZCAINO, LUIS MIGUEL (LUIS MIGUEL)
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Kevin Mason
- Re: [conex] [httpstreaming] [dispatch] Q-HTTP Mikael Abrahamsson