Re: [core] removing names from yang-cbor rules

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Thu, 23 September 2021 15:25 UTC

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From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:25:13 +0200
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, "Murray S. Kucherawy" <superuser@gmail.com>, Core <core@ietf.org>
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To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
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Subject: Re: [core] removing names from yang-cbor rules
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Strings would not be used with constrained devices. 

The point of the string-based names is to ensure that there never is a reason to use text-based encodings (XML, JSON) with yang. 
It is a completely separate choice. 
(Supported by Accept: in http.)

Sent from mobile, sorry for terse

> On 23. Sep 2021, at 16:17, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 9:35 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>> Clearly, SIDs are the major innovation here and they are the normal way to use Yang-cbor. 
>> 
>> I don’t agree the string variant should be removed. This takes Yang-cbor out of the game for “big-web” applications. 
>> 
>> Instead, we should make sure to explain that strings are a special option that you chose wholesale when you need it, not something you switch to from SIDs randomly. 
>> 
> 
> The problem with this approach (no negotiation, either peer sends SID or string at any time)
> is that it forces complexity on a constrained device that a giant NETCONF router is not
> even expected to support. It also forces a constrained device to store the string names.
> 
> 
> Andy
> 
>> Sent from mobile, sorry for terse
>> 
>>>> On 23. Sep 2021, at 01:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Sep 22, 2021 at 2:54 PM Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Murray S. Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>     > I'm happy to take credit for a keen observation such as this, but this
>>>>     > was actually Eric Vyncke.
>>>> 
>>>> sorry, if I screwed that attribution up when creating the issues.
>>>> 
>>>>     >> I also wonder about this.  I think that the SID concept is advanced
>>>>     >> enough that we can just rely upon it.  Murray's comment is that if we
>>>>     >> support two things, then an encoder needs to pick one, and it's likely
>>>>     >> wrong.  Since this is often data at rest, there is no possible
>>>>     >> negotiation either.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I propose to remove section 4.1.2:
>>>> 
>>>> There are also other parts of the document which refer to names as well.
>>>> I have no use for names.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I agree it is better to remove the string name variant and only support SIDs as names.
>>> It will be important for the client to be able to obtain the SID File URL list
>>> representing all SIDs used by the server. This is needed before the client can
>>> use any data from the server (including the CORECONF YANG library).
>>> 
>>> The client will have to be hard-wired with the SIDs or capable of consuming SID files in JSON format.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>   . o O ( IPv6 IøT consulting )
>>>>            Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Andy
>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
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