Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-optimizations-00
Simon Bernard <contact@simonbernard.eu> Wed, 02 November 2016 17:22 UTC
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To: "Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)" <thomas.fossati@nokia.com>, "Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)" <Achim.Kraus@bosch-si.com>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
References: <D43F60A9.74AFB%thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com> <BC36447FF5C62E46BEF3F124D3C1E8925E1F5F6B@imbpw2exd01.bosch-si.com> <607f8720-8e86-90f6-83fd-299939c298ae@simonbernard.eu> <D43FC498.74BA7%thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>
From: Simon Bernard <contact@simonbernard.eu>
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Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2016 18:22:06 +0100
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Subject: Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-optimizations-00
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With TLS 1.2 we currently don't have this tracking aspect consideration ? Identity is sent in clear, by sniffing the network you could know who send to who. This seems to me like another issue/feature. Currently TLS don't protect you from tracking or provide you any anonymity : "The primary goal of the TLS protocol is to provide privacy and data integrity between two communicating applications." (+ authentication) As a wiseman tell to me : "one step at a time !". (ConnectionID will have a lifetime less or equals than the session lifetime, this means 24h maximum. This limit the tracking activity based on connectionID to 24h) Le 02/11/2016 à 17:52, Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB) a écrit : > Hi Simon, > > On 02/11/2016 16:08, "core on behalf of Simon Bernard" > <core-bounces@ietf.org on behalf of contact@simonbernard.eu> wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I'm not sure to understand the point here. >> * The "draft-fossati-tls-iot-optimizations-00" says "The privacy >> issue associated with the use of a long-term identifier >> must be taken into consideration." >> * Thomas says "I think privacy preservation should be a goal". >> I would like to understand which privacy concern we would like to >> achieve exactly ? With TLS we have end to end encryption. You want to >> add a kind of anonymity ? or maybe protect ourself from connectionid >> spoofing ? > The issue is that something like CID will make tracking a device activity > across different transports very easy. (Personally, I think NAT rebinding > is a bit different because it usually happens without client awareness, > and therefore already exposes correlation information to a possible > tracker.) > > In any case, if we make this an extension of the general TLS protocol we > need to make sure we design it in a way that a) is fit for the purpose > from a functional and security perspective, and b) takes into > consideration the tracking aspects for clients that want to have finer > control on their privacy. > > >> From my point of view, the connection id is just a way to replace >> the IP address by a connection identifier for use-cases where IP address >> is not fixed. So we have the same security level with connection id than >> fixed IP. We are maybe a bit more exposed to spoofing as connectionid >> spoofing is probably more simple than UDP IP address spoofing, but not >> so much. I mean connectionid is just another way to retrieve security >> context needed to decrypt Application Data. > ISTM that if CID has enough randomness and is integrity-protected, then > spoofing is not an issue (or it is less an issue than security context > lookup based on a fully tamperable 5-tuple). But certainly this is a > dimension to explore further (e.g. depending on the way CID is > synchronised on the two sides, there might be opportunities for an > attacker that can selectively drop packets from the network to do > different things, I guess). > > Cheers, t >
- [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-optimi… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Hannes Tschofenig
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] Question reg. draft-fossati-tls-iot-op… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: Question reg. draft-fossati-… Pascal Thubert (pthubert)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Kraus Achim (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Simon Bernard
- Re: [core] [ALU] Re: [ALU] Re: Question reg.draft… Hudalla Kai (INST/ESY1)