Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-sid-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> Tue, 13 July 2021 19:14 UTC
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From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 12:14:39 -0700
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To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Cc: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-core-sid@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-core-sid@ietf.org>, "core-chairs@ietf.org" <core-chairs@ietf.org>, "core@ietf.org" <core@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-sid-16: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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On Tue, Jul 13, 2021 at 11:53 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton= 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Thanks. Please see inline. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: iesg <iesg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > > Sent: 13 July 2021 18:39 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; > > draft-ietf-core-sid@ietf.org; core-chairs@ietf.org; core@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core-sid-16: > (with > > DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > > > Robert Wilton via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > (1) I would like further discussion regarding whether SIDs are > bound just > > to > > > the schema name, or the schema item definition. > > > > I'm not sure I understand the question.... I guess schema name is the > leaf > > definition. > > The schema name (or path), is just the location to a data item definition > (e.g., foo). > > e.g., > leaf foo { > type string { > len "1..10"; > } > } > > The definition of foo could change, without changing the name. E.g., a > backwards-compatible change: > > leaf foo { > type string { > len "1..20"; > } > } > > Or the definition of foo could change in a non-backwards-compatible way. > E.g., > > leaf foo { > type int32; > } > > RFC 7950 basically states that this is not allowed, but these sorts of > changes happens anyway (e.g., vendors fixing bugs, or bugs in standard YANG > models), and the YANG versioning work will allow these sorts of changes > with appropriate mitigations. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-03 > > But in all these cases, no new SID should be allocated, or otherwise you > will have two SIDs assigned to the same name/path. > > The "item" list is a bit odd because the namespaces (module, identity, feature, data) do not exactly align with the YANG terminology. The draft should specify what happens if the namespace changes. It seems a new SID is needed and the old entry (different namespace) becomes obsolete. list item { key "namespace identifier"; unique "sid"; A SID is bound to the {namespace, identifier} tuple. The type of data node (e.g. container vs. leaf) does not impact this mapping. The data type (e.g. string vs int32) does not affect this mapping. Andy > > > > > The draft states that if the > > > definition is changed in a non-backwards-compatible (NBC) way then > a > > new SID > > > SHOULD be allocated. > > > > True, I assume that this leads to a new YANG leaf name. > > Only if the author gives the definition a new name, and from a SID > allocation POV, this is just a new item name in the schema, and hence needs > a new SID. I.e., the allocation of a new SID is related to a new item > name, not because of changes in a definition. > > > > > > But I don't understand how this will work. Given that > > > the .sid file would then contain exactly the same path but with > different > > sids > > > assigned (for every time the meaning of the definition changes), > then > > how do > > > consumers of the sid file know which sid to use for a given path > (given > > that > > > there is no indication in the .sid file)? Instead, I think that > this is the > > > wrong way to be handling NBC changes, and SIDs should be bound only > > to the > > > schema path (i.e., the name of the item), and a new SID is only > allocated > > if > > > the name/path changes, and otherwise the same SID is used, even if > the > > > definition changes in a non-backwards-compatible way. > > > > This is my understanding. > > Okay, I think that the text that describes this need to be tweaked. > > > > > > > (3) This draft makes use of the rc:yang-data extension. Was there > any > > > discussion about using "YANG Data Structure Extensions" (RFC 8791) > > instead, > > > which is meant to be a cleaner formulation of the rc:yang-data > extension, > > and > > > without the dependency on RESTCONF? I would suggest that using RFC > > 8791 would > > > be preferable if possible. > > > > I don't know of any such discussion, but I don't really understand the > > distinction. > > The new RFC is effectively the "proper" way to do achieving this. > > I think that is may be as simple as changing: > > import ietf-restconf { > prefix rc; > reference "RFC 8040: RESTCONF Protocol."; > } > > rc:yang-data sid-file { > uses sid-file; > } > > to > > import ietf-yang-structure-ext { > prefix sx; > } > > sx:structure sid-file { > uses sid-file; > } > > > > > > > > > (4) The policy in 7.4.2 for allocation a SID mega-range seems to > aiming > > this > > > towards organizations rather than individuals. > > > > Yes, the idea being that "Zigbee" or "IEEE" or ... would allocate a > mega-range. > > Yes. > > > > > > The policy in 7.6 for the "IETF > > > YANG SID Registry" requires an RFC. What is the mechanism if an > > individual or > > > open source project wanted to get SIDs assigned for some of their > YANG > > modules? > > > > > I.e., should we be defining a separate mega-range, managed by IANA, > > with just > > > Expert Review or Specification Required so that these modules > could use > > SIDs > > > allocated? Or do you envisage a separate entity taking up the > > responsibility > > > for coordinating this? > > > > My impression was that there would be a mega-range operated outside of > > IANA > > for this (open source, non-RFC YANG module) kind of thing, but I think > that > > the energy for doing that may have waned. > > Okay. If there is a lack of energy there, do you think that this is > something that we should be asking IANA to manage (i.e., have this draft > separate a separate mega-range for these other modules)? > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > > > -- > > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh > networks [ > > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT > architect [ > > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on > rails [ > > > > > > -- > > Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca> . o O ( IPv6 IøT > consulting ) > > Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >
- [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-core… Robert Wilton via Datatracker
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Michael Richardson
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Andy Bierman
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Rob Wilton (rwilton)
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Carsten Bormann
- Re: [core] Robert Wilton's Discuss on draft-ietf-… Rob Wilton (rwilton)