Re: [core] #396 (coap-tcp-tls): L1 vs. L3 Encoding Approach

Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> Sat, 26 March 2016 16:38 UTC

Return-Path: <cabo@tzi.org>
X-Original-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: core@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EDB512D6B7 for <core@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 09:38:47 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddv4UDr95cCz for <core@ietfa.amsl.com>; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 09:38:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (relay6-d.mail.gandi.net [IPv6:2001:4b98:c:538::198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD6C212D6BE for <core@ietf.org>; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 09:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mfilter42-d.gandi.net (mfilter42-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.172]) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CC4CFB8A9; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:38:44 +0100 (CET)
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter42-d.gandi.net
Received: from relay6-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.198]) by mfilter42-d.gandi.net (mfilter42-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NdyUbx35clQ; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:38:42 +0100 (CET)
X-Originating-IP: 93.199.229.85
Received: from nar.local (p5DC7E555.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [93.199.229.85]) (Authenticated sender: cabo@cabo.im) by relay6-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0BFDAFB886; Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:38:41 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <56F6BB11.5050808@tzi.org>
Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 17:38:41 +0100
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
User-Agent: Postbox 4.0.8 (Macintosh/20151105)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: trac+core@zinfandel.tools.ietf.org
References: <065.8fdd76888850930554160d95484c0360@trac.tools.ietf.org>
In-Reply-To: <065.8fdd76888850930554160d95484c0360@trac.tools.ietf.org>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.2.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/core/s6QAf0MaBLFc7Q0XrOr8GdzwwsU>
Cc: core@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [core] #396 (coap-tcp-tls): L1 vs. L3 Encoding Approach
X-BeenThere: core@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Constrained RESTful Environments \(CoRE\) Working Group list" <core.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/core/>
List-Post: <mailto:core@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core>, <mailto:core-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2016 16:38:47 -0000

>  We have not taken the performance aspect of larger file transfers (e.g.,
>  transfer of a 4MB firmware update) into account when we made the
>  solution decision in Yokohama. The reason why the OIC/OCF take such
>  large file transfers into account is because of their desire to use CoAP
>  also for non-constrained devices.

Actually, we did discuss larger transfers in Yokohama (although the word
"performant" only occurs once in the minutes, specifically where
Matthias reported on the IoTivity work).  The understanding was that an
extension to -block like draft-bormann-core-block-bert would reduce the
performance gap between a 16-bit (L1) and a 32-bit length (L3), if
needed.  The sentiment in the room was a bit against creating a dialect
of CoAP with much larger payload sizes than the ones recommended in
section 4.6 of RFC 7252, but we didn't really have much input on this to
work from.

So this particular question really reduces to:  Should CoAP be extended
to provide payload sizes well over 64 KiB over TCP, TLS?  (The
Websockets framing already provides the capability, up to 16 EiB.)

Grüße, Carsten