Re: [COSE] [jose] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.txt

Hi Orie,

Thanks for the review. Please see inline

On Tue, 5 Mar 2024 at 19:02, Orie Steele <orie@transmute.industries> wrote:

> Draft looks very familiar after have spent so much time with HPKE.
>
> And it would be nice to have at least one pq encryption suite on track for
> standardization.
>
> Having different direct mode alg values for ML-KEM and HPKE that are both
> basically telling you to look an enc... Is wasting registry space.
>
> alg: dir, is sufficient.
>
> The documents that register the new enc modes can explain why.
>
> I think it would be better to see ML-KEM suites in HPKE, instead of seeing
> duplicates.
>
> There will also be different security issues, without the HPKE context and
> key commiting, etc...
>
> There will be worse interop with 2 ways to do the same things.
>
> With hydrids on the horizon... it's a mistake to register hydrids twice...
> Once for HPKE and once for standalone.
>
> I think we should use HPKE until there is reason not to use it.
>
> Is this draft motivated by implementers who could not use HPKE?
>

HPKE supports X25519Kyber768Draft00, a hybrid scheme that combines both
traditional and PQC KEM algorithms. This hybrid scheme for confidentiality
serves as a transitional approach, paving the path for a future migration
to PQC KEM algorithms. For more details, refer to
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-pquip-pqc-engineers-03#section-14.
Other protocols like IPSEC are also discussing the use of PQC KEM
algorithms.

-Tiru

>
> Are there critical use cases that multiple vendors need to support that
> only work without using HPKE?
>
> OS
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2024, 5:34 AM tirumal reddy <kondtir@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We have published a new draft
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.html,
>> that describes the conventions for using Post-Quantum Key Encapsulation
>> Mechanisms (PQ-KEMs) within JOSE and COSE.  Although this mechanism could
>> be used with any PQ-KEM, this document focuses on Module-Lattice-based Key
>> Encapsulation Mechanisms (ML-KEMs).
>>
>> Comments and Suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> -Tiru
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2024 at 10:32
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.txt
>> To: Tirumaleswar Reddy.K <kondtir@gmail.com>, Aritra Banerjee <
>> aritra.banerjee@nokia.com>, Hannes Tschofenig <Hannes.Tschofenig@gmx.net>,
>> Hannes Tschofenig <hannes.tschofenig@gmx.net>
>>
>>
>> A new version of Internet-Draft draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.txt has
>> been
>> successfully submitted by Tirumaleswar Reddy and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:     draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem
>> Revision: 00
>> Title:    Post-Quantum Key Encapsulation Mechanisms (PQ KEMs) for JOSE
>> and COSE
>> Date:     2024-03-03
>> Group:    Individual Submission
>> Pages:    16
>> URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.txt
>> Status:   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem/
>> HTML:
>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem-00.html
>> HTMLized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc-kem
>>
>>
>> Abstract:
>>
>>    This document describes the conventions for using Post-Quantum Key
>>    Encapsulation Mechanisms (PQ-KEMs) within JOSE and COSE.
>>
>> About This Document
>>
>>    This note is to be removed before publishing as an RFC.
>>
>>    Status information for this document may be found at
>>    https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reddy-cose-jose-pqc/.
>>
>>    Discussion of this document takes place on the cose Working Group
>>    mailing list (mailto:cose@ietf.org), which is archived at
>>    https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/cose/.  Subscribe at
>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/cose/.
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>
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>