Re: [dbound] Updated draft-levine-orgboundary-03

Casey Deccio <casey@deccio.net> Thu, 12 November 2015 17:38 UTC

Return-Path: <casey@deccio.net>
X-Original-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dbound@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BF6A1B2AD1 for <dbound@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:32 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.378
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.378 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4XOwFzwuBXk8 for <dbound@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0D091B2ACD for <dbound@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:30 -0800 (PST)
Received: by wmdw130 with SMTP id w130so164531400wmd.0 for <dbound@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:29 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=deccio.net; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=4bvtPAwRR+AmjOTLoPVBWv+gkmdFhO9GqcamLuEL028=; b=AF8Y1LLqHqDaLx6mzaLlL8dvCLFUNhIlz8/XGs4s3X9QA3XrJ2bDOEWbaLx2fJlvX5 +61i14b1MgO7ixn2a8VD0Bss3ALEBDC4yEfgUIv+sYxdFdNBZpFq44CC6fjv8If1Y4An tTiOPOyUpOyq2CXP77fyYH0y5icaK7hT21EzU=
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=4bvtPAwRR+AmjOTLoPVBWv+gkmdFhO9GqcamLuEL028=; b=YUgHaebh7bRjnTw9O3J97WZpNOVgzb159xh3rpmqqqYDaoFsc9wRNtTYCEoQFMjftJ feptmnm2MAGAq4dNO+/an2PWo8/QL+1cyze3lNTemrRvFacfHh3Ckgh9baaVdjDz/b2w Zqr6YuVXrN3FkVn508JowZ99rbKEL9qWRpYutEMyc4rfyDUFsFREa9/hIt59+jEDaidE KH5mrKQCHkzM4cXFtddgtGyYDmMqvlgt+JwxZOg95qvKeBvJYfoJlYZLaT5cJic+nVyZ +B9alNF7PsDJ3M7ayej5xf7U04S0w8d+ZPQWyPgzSUsqdFHlCkfOmKvLbMFZk9dfCJDL J60w==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmVjgCx5V92bchAgwQYZafdK6Gt6gI4P4GjR3QITxxixlvQsUmerLV7qIJFJe/8thSWa6JV
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.28.48.213 with SMTP id w204mr17325960wmw.38.1447349909296; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:29 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.195.12.137 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Nov 2015 09:38:29 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <alpine.OSX.2.11.1511121225420.8046@ary.lan>
References: <alpine.OSX.2.11.1511091838260.92970@ary.local> <20151112021154.2231.qmail@ary.lan> <CAEKtLiQAiQ2gnv5828yifGCZb_0oH1kTSLsx8p0EaPoqA-k=ig@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.OSX.2.11.1511121201440.7480@ary.lan> <CAEKtLiQwNiod05dhfaLwgv9MME80vDzCXLV4Lp+BiQA-sdom9Q@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.OSX.2.11.1511121225420.8046@ary.lan>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 12:38:29 -0500
Message-ID: <CAEKtLiSZkw7aK_CfnZYTaaEm9y_ZuyD60D79ddzTB5Lk_M2sPw@mail.gmail.com>
From: Casey Deccio <casey@deccio.net>
To: John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11422af435a5fb05245b6916"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dbound/YnuFAnY7aFwiT3zC8KixxVNDcKo>
Cc: "dbound@ietf.org" <dbound@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dbound] Updated draft-levine-orgboundary-03
X-BeenThere: dbound@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: DNS tree bounds <dbound.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dbound>, <mailto:dbound-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dbound/>
List-Post: <mailto:dbound@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dbound-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dbound>, <mailto:dbound-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 17:38:32 -0000

On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:27 PM, John R Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:

> Yes, I know.
>
> My scheme will typically make one or two DNS queries regardless of the
> length of the DNS name.


What I'm saying is that "typically" does not dictate complexity; worst case
dictates complexity.


> Yours appears to do a tree walk for each name component.
>

As I have mentioned both in this thread and in the draft, iteration stops
at an NXDOMAIN--which if I understand correctly, is the equivalent of
hitting a wildcard response in your draft.  I welcome your detailed read
and review of the ODUP draft.

My assumption is that each request is likely to be for a particular
> application.  If you need to enumerate the boundaries for M services, that
> will take M times as long but that doesn't seem like a very common
> situation.
>

Assumptions are fine.  Commonalities are fine.  But again, if you get into
the realm of bounding algorithmic complexity, it's all about worst case,
upper bounding.  Worst case vs. anticipated performance, given the baseline
behavior, are also discussed in the ODUP draft.

I am belaboring this somewhat because we have drafts whose merits are being
discussed on this mailing list, and one of the concerns that has been
raised is "complexity".  Let's be clear about what that means, so the
comparisons are apples to apples.

Casey