Re: [Detnet] Packet Ordering Function (draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt)

[Jeong-dong Ryoo <[e-mail]>]

Hi Bala'zs,

Thank you for your email.
Yes, it is the same operation.

Cheers,

Jeong-dong



-----Original Message-----
From: "Balázs Varga A" <balazs.a.varga=[e-mail]>
To: "Jeong-dong Ryoo" <[e-mail]>; "Greg Mirsky" <[e-mail]>; "Stephan Kehrer" <[e-mail]>;
Cc: "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>;
Sent: 2021-04-27 (화) 18:15:10 (UTC+09:00)
Subject: Re: [Detnet] Packet Ordering Function (draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt)

Hi Greg/Stephan/Jeong-dong,
 
Thanks for the question and the clarifications.
More clear definitions are always better, so we will update the text in the next version. :--)))
Thanks for the proposal, it is identical from operation perspective, but better structured.
 
Cheers
Bala’zs
 
 
 
From: detnet <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Jeong-dong RyooSent: Monday, April 26, 2021 11:51 AMTo: Greg Mirsky <[e-mail]>; Stephan Kehrer <[e-mail]>Cc: [e-mail]: Re: [Detnet] Packet Ordering Function (draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt)

 
Hi,

 

In order to describe the operation a little bit more clearly, how about the following modification:

OLD:

o If (seq_num <= POFLastSent + 1)

   * Then the packet is forwarded and "POFLastSent" is updated

      (POFLastSent = seq_num).

  * Else the received packet is buffered until a predefined time

      ("POFMaxDelay") elapses OR its seq_num becomes equal to

      "POFLastSent + 1".

NEW:

o If (seq_num <= POFLastSent + 1)

   * Then the packet is forwarded and "POFLastSent" is updated

      (POFLastSent = seq_num).

  * Else the received packet is buffered.

o  A buffered packet is forwarded from the buffer 

    when its seq_num becomes equal to "POFLastSent +1," OR 

    a predefined time ("POFMaxDely") elapses. 

 

Best regards,

 

Jeong-dong

 

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: "Stephan Kehrer" <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>

To: "Greg Mirsky" <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>;

Cc: "[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]" <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>;

Sent: 2021-04-26 (월) 18:26:05 (UTC+09:00)

Subject: Re: [Detnet] Packet Ordering Function (draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt)

 

Hi Greg,
 
Looking at the scenario you describe I think packets arriving in the order 100, 103, 102, 101 cannot happen due to an error on the transmission path if you are using only two paths. They might happen if the sender is failing and sends out the packets in the wrong order to begin with or if you are using more than two paths for redundancy and have failures on multiple transmission paths in a very specific order.
That being said, even then the transmission order 100, 101, 103, 102 should not be something you get from the POF in my opinion. If the packets are arriving and are buffered the way you describe, I think the following is what should happen (changes to what you had in your mail marked in red):
POFLastSent = 100a packet with seq_num = 103 is received and placed into the buffer for the duration of POFMaxDelaynext received packet has seq_num = 102. It is also moved into the buffer for the duration of POFMaxDelayfinally, before all delayed packets transmitted out of the buffer, a packet with seq_num = 101 is received and is forwarded right away. This sets POFLastSent = 101.the packet with seq_num=102 is forwarded because it now fulfills the condition ‘OR its seq_num becomes equal to"POFLastSent + 1"’. This sets POFLastSent = 102.the packet with seq_num=103 is forwarded because it now fulfills the condition ‘OR its seq_num becomes equal to"POFLastSent + 1"’. This set POFLastSent = 103.Packets arriving after that are forwarded without delay if they are next in sequence, and delayed if they are out of sequence as described in the POF algorithm.Regards,
Stephan
--
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Von: detnet <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]> Im Auftrag von Greg MirskyGesendet: Samstag, 24. April 2021 03:04An: Balázs Varga A <balazs.a.varga=[e-mail] mailto:balazs.a.varga=[e-mail]>Cc:  [e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Detnet] Packet Ordering Function (draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt)

 
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Hi Balazs,
thank you for the well-designed mechanism of one of the key DetNet functions.

I have a scenario and would appreciate your consideration if you think it is a plausible one:

assume that POFLastSent = 100a packet with seq_num = 103 is received and placed into the buffer for the duration of POFMaxDelaynext received packet has seq_num = 102. It is also moved into the buffer for the duration of POFMaxDelayfinally, before all delayed packets transmitted out of the buffer, a packet with seq_num = 101 is received and is forwarded right awaythe delay timer expires on the packet with seq_num=103. It is forwarded and  POFLastSent = 103next, the delay timer expires on the packet with seq_num=102. It, in turn, is forwarded and  POFLastSent = 102from now, based on my understanding of the described POF algorithm, every packet will be delayed even if there are no re-ordered packets. For example, the sequence of arriving packets is as 104, 105, 106, ...Much appreciate your opinion if the scenario, i.e., a sequence like 100, 103, 102, 101, is a realistic one.


 

Regards,

Greg


 
On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 10:39 PM Balázs Varga A <balazs.a.varga=[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]> wrote:

Hi,A draft on Packet Ordering Function (POF) algorithms were uploaded.Comments and views are highly appreciated.ThanksBala'zs (and the authors)



-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2021 7:14 AM
To: Balázs Varga A <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>; Janos Farkas <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>; Balázs Varga A <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>;
 Janos Farkas <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>; Stephan Kehrer <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>; Stephan Kehrer <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>;
 Tobias Heer <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>; Tobias Heer <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt has been successfully submitted by =?utf-8?q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Varga?= and posted to the IETF repository.

Name: draft-varga-detnet-pof
Revision: 00
Title: Deterministic Networking (DetNet): Packet Ordering Function
Document date: 2021-04-19
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 10
URL: 
 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=42292fb7-1db216b7-42296f2c-86fc6812c361-b79213ba824e6d93&q=1&e=5dd3eaf7-6baf-4f90-b030-71c3c708325b&u=https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-varga-detnet-pof-00.txt__;!!B_EDKQmmvsU!7vmDpLfsfmmLuG9tQHwCrsPqlNqL_fA88lGK7awH9s4iu2A-gZ-KVq6uPhKWdzZ8c98$
Status: 
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-varga-detnet-pof/ https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=984afd7a-c7d1c47a-984abde1-86fc6812c361-4962d489008d8450&q=1&e=5dd3eaf7-6baf-4f90-b030-71c3c708325b&u=https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-varga-detnet-pof/__;!!B_EDKQmmvsU!7vmDpLfsfmmLuG9tQHwCrsPqlNqL_fA88lGK7awH9s4iu2A-gZ-KVq6uPhKWJABOkBc$
Htmlized: 
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Htmlized: 
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Abstract:
Replication and Elimination functions of DetNet [RFC8655] may result
in out-of-order packets, which may not be acceptable for some time-
sensitive applications. The Packet Ordering Function (POF) algorithm
described herein enables to restore the correct packet order when
replication and elimination functions are used in DetNet networks.




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