Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP
Misha Zaytsev <misha.zaytsev.rus@gmail.com> Tue, 31 January 2017 20:07 UTC
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From: Misha Zaytsev <misha.zaytsev.rus@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 23:07:11 +0300
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To: Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>
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Cc: "dime@ietf.org" <dime@ietf.org>, "Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)" <maryse.gardella@nokia.com>
Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP
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Hi Yuval, I almost agree with your explanations that you sent to Maryse, except one bullet: In a case of a new type of subscription, not covered in RFC4006, it may send the new AVP with the M-bit set, causing any old server to reply with DIAMETER_AVP_UNSUPPORTED (5001). It may also send the new AVP without the M-bit set, here the server would just ignore the AVP, but would probably reply DIAMETER_MISSING_AVP (5005) as it will not have any subscription ID RFC4006 server should not reply with DIAMETER_MISSING_AVP (5005) result code according to RFC6733, since Subscription-Id AVP is *not* marked as required in CCR definition: A received command that is missing AVPs that are defined as required in the commands CCF; examples are AVPs indicated as *{AVP}*. The receiver issues an answer with the Result-Code set to DIAMETER_MISSING_AVP and creates an AVP with the AVP Code and other fields set as expected in the missing AVP. The created AVP is then added to the Failed-AVP AVP. The remaining part is according to the RFC6733 from my point of view. All in all, to set M-bit or not, depends on what reaction you want to see from RFC4006 server. /Misha 2017-01-30 11:29 GMT+03:00 Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>: > Hi Misha, > > We didn’t consider the option of using a bitmap, but I’m open to this > idea. IMO, it would be more difficult managing the addition of new values > in the case of a bitmap than in the case of adding new AVPs. OTOH, adding > a bitmap will be less changes to the RFC. > > In our proposal the AVPs are marked as optional, and the M-bit **may** be > set. I sent an explanation to Maryse on the M-bit – please see below, and > let me know if you have comments on that. > > As ABNF cannot show the concept of “one and only one AVP” I will update > the text to state that explicitly (added: https://github.com/lbertz02/ > rfc4006bis/issues/18) > > > > Yuval > > > > *From:* Misha Zaytsev [mailto:misha.zaytsev.rus@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2017 8:21 PM > > *To:* Yuval Lifshitz > *Cc:* Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP > > > > Hi Yuval, > > > > Thanks a lot for your clarifications! Now it seems I see your concern. > > > > As I can see the problem is that there is no possibility to extend the > defined AVPs of type Enumerated in a backward compatible way. For me it > means that all enumerate AVPs defined in RFC4006 (listed in section 12) is > a matter of your investigation. Not the grouped ones, but the ones that are > used as indicators in these grouped AVPs. > > > > Following the recommendations in https://tools.ietf.org/ > html/rfc7423#section-5.6 that you pointed out, I think bitmask based AVPs > may be a way out in the current situation. Such AVP will be marked as > mandatory. While only one bit of this bitmask MUST be set. > > > > Subscription-Id-Extension ::= < AVP Header: XXX > > [ Subscription-Id-Type-Indicator ] > [Subscrition-Id-Data] > > > Have you considered this option? Or probably I'm missing something.. > > > > However, if we follow the way you are proposing with several mutually > exclusive AVPs, then these AVPs should be marked as not mandatory. While in > the description of the appropriate grouped AVP it should be stated that > only one of these AVPs MUST be present. > > > > /Misha > > > > > > 2017-01-29 11:29 GMT+03:00 Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>: > > Hi Misha, > There is nothing “well known” in these issues and I’ll be happy to clarify! > > (1) During IETF96 a question came regarding the support of the IMEI user > equipment type – currently not one of the enumerated types of the > User-Equipment-Info-Type AVP (IMEISV is there but not IMEI). As a result of > this discussion, and due to the enum extension limitations (see here: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7423#section-5.6), we were asked to do an > analysis on which enumerated AVPs requires extensibility. The results were > captured in the following ticket: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ > dime/ticket/95 > For better clarity I’m posting here the actual analysis of AVPs. Some of > them didn’t need to be extensible (in our view), some of them were already > extensible and the rest were added to the ticket: > > AVP Section > Attribute Name Code Defined Data Type > ----------------------------------------- > CC-Money 413 8.22 Grouped - not extensible, does not > need to be > Cost-Information 423 8.7 Grouped - not extensible, does not > need to be > Final-Unit- 430 8.34 Grouped - not extensible, will be > replaced by QoS-Final-Unit-Indication that will be extensible > Indication > Granted-Service- 431 8.17 Grouped - extensible > Unit > G-S-U-Pool- 457 8.30 Grouped - not extensible, does not > need to be > Reference > Multiple-Services 456 8.16 Grouped - extensible > -Credit-Control > Redirect-Server 434 8.37 Grouped - not extensible, has a > problem similar to equipment type as it contains an enumerated type/value > AVPs > Requested-Service 437 8.18 Grouped - extensible > -Unit > Service-Parameter 440 8.43 Grouped - not extensible, does not > need to be > -Info > Subscription-Id 443 8.46 Grouped - not extensible, has a > problem similar to equipment type as it contains an enumerated type/value > AVPs > Unit-Value 445 8.8 Grouped - not extensible, does not > need to be > Used-Service-Unit 446 8.19 Grouped - extensible > User-Equipment 458 8.49 Grouped - not extensible, will be > replaced by an AVP that will be extensible > -Info > > Would appreciate your comments if you think differently about any of the > AVPs above, or that we have missed other AVPs that needs to. > > (2) E.g adding new subscription ID. > > Unlike Subscription-Id-Type AVP which cannot be extended to a new type > without a new application ID, a new AVP being proposed in RFC4006bis is: > > Subscription-Id-Extension ::= < AVP Header: XXX > > [ Subscription-Id-E164 ] > [ Subscription-Id-IMSI ] > [ Subscription-Id-SIP-URI ] > [ Subscription-Id-NAI ] > [ Subscription-Id-Private ] > *[ AVP ] > > So, in order to add a new type (post RFC4006bis), you would need to submit > draft with an AVP definition in it to could be added to the > Subscription-Id-Extension as it is extensible. > This new draft would be compliant with RFC4006bis and will therefore not > require a new application ID. > > Best Regards, > > Yuval > > > From: Misha Zaytsev [mailto:misha.zaytsev.rus@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2017 11:07 PM > To: Yuval Lifshitz > Cc: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR); dime@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP > > > Hi Yuval, > > May I ask you several questions to be able to understand the whole > situation: > > 1. Why are you proposing to add new extendable AVPs only for some of the > AVPs listed in section 12? > I think the same concern is applicable for all these AVPs, isn't? > > 2. Could you clarify what official procedure to assign new available > values is meant here? > It is not working w/o defining new Application-ID as you mentioned above? > > > 12.16. Subscription-Id-Type AVP > > As defined in Section 8.47, the Subscription-Id-Type AVP includes > Enumerated type values 0 - 4. IANA has created and is maintaining a > namespace for this AVP. All remaining values are available for > assignment by a Designated Expert [RFC2434]. > > Excuse me in advance if what I'm asking about are well-known things. > But still please clarify them at least for me... > > Thanks a lot in advance! > > /Misha > > 2017-01-25 11:29 GMT+03:00 Yuval Lifshitz <ylifshitz@sandvine.com>: > Hi Maryse, > The idea is the following: > • If the CC client want to work with RFC4006bis only CC server, > and want to make sure that the subscription ID is understood by the server, > it may set the M-bit. Any RFC4006 server will reply with > DIAMETER_AVP_UNSUPPORTED (5001) > • If the CC client is not sure whether the CC servers are RFC4006 > or RFC4006bis, or have a mix of servers, and want to work with both, it may > not set the M-bit > o In this case it would send both AVPs for the old types, so that the > new AVP will be ignored by the RFC4006 servers > o In a case of a new type of subscription, not covered in RFC4006, it > may send the new AVP with the M-bit set, causing any old server to reply > with DIAMETER_AVP_UNSUPPORTED (5001). It may also send the new AVP without > the M-bit set, here the server would just ignore the AVP, but would > probably reply DIAMETER_MISSING_AVP (5005) as it will not have any > subscription ID > > Yuval > > From: Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR) [mailto:maryse.gardella@nokia.com] > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 5:25 PM > To: Yuval Lifshitz; dime@ietf.org > Subject: RE: RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP > > Hi Yuval, > > Thanks for continuing on this. > I am not sure to understand the difference between “may” and “must”, since > with “May” we can end having the M-bit set by the RFC4006bis CC client. > I guess from the protocol’s perspective “may” and “must” makes no > difference right? > > BR > Maryse > > From: DiME [mailto:dime-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Yuval Lifshitz > Sent: vendredi 13 janvier 2017 15:24 > To: dime@ietf.org > Subject: [ALU] [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP > > Hi All, > As part of the RFC4006bis work there are several AVPs that we plan on > making future proof (See also: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/dime/ticket/95). > For example, Subscription-Id AVP cannot be extended to new types without > changing the enumeration in Subscription-Id-Type AVP, which in turn > requires a new application ID (something we really want to avoid). > To solve this issue we propose adding a new, extendable AVP. In this > example: > > Subscription-Id-Extension ::= < AVP Header: XXX > > [ Subscription-Id-E164 ] > [ Subscription-Id-IMSI ] > [ Subscription-Id-SIP-URI ] > [ Subscription-Id-NAI ] > [ Subscription-Id-Private ] > *[ AVP ] > > When looking into Subscription-ID-Extension AVP header flags I ran into a > problem. The existing Subscription-ID AVP (and its sub-AVPs) are all marked > with the M-bit as a “must”, probably because they hold the subscriber’s > name which is critical information. > However, in order for a RFC4006bis CC client to be able to communicate > with an RFC4006 CC-server, they will have to be marked as “may”. > > Would appreciate your point of view on that topic? > > Best Regards, > > Yuval > > > _______________________________________________ > DiME mailing list > DiME@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dime > > >
- [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension AVP Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Misha Zaytsev
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Gardella, Maryse (Nokia - FR)
- Re: [Dime] RFC4006bis - Subscription-Id-Extension… Yuval Lifshitz