[dispatch] Re: Request for Guidance on Advancing Updates to RFC 4130

[Orie <[e-mail]>]

Hi Debra & the dispatch list : )

Normally,  I would offer to setup a non wg mailing list per:

https://www.ietf.org/participate/lists/nonwglist-guidelines/

However, in this case, the EDIINT mailing list is for a concluded working
group, reopening the list would seem to address the purpose of dispatch
prematurely.

I'll leave it to the dispatch chairs to determine how much discussion of
dispatch work items is appropriate for this list.

If the volume is getting too high, and it seems there is enough interest /
no objections to opening the old list, I am happy to do that.

Regards,

OS, ART AD




On Mon, Jun 23, 2025 at 9:29 AM Debra Petta <[e-mail]>
wrote:

> Hi Orie and Dispatch Group –
>
>
>
> What is the status of the EDIINT mailing list?   We’re in limbo right now
> and I would really like to get started on updates to this RFC before the
> participants that I have recruited to help with this task lose interest.
>
> Let me know if there is anything I can do to help move this process
> forward.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Debra
>
>
>
>
>
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>  *Debra Petta*
> Sr. Software Engineer
>
> Information Security and Interoperability
>  E  [e-mail]
>  W drummondgroup.com <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Orie <[e-mail]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 22, 2025 1:41 PM
> *To:* Jim Fenton <[e-mail]>
> *Cc:* Debra Petta <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: Request for Guidance on Advancing Updates to RFC 4130
>
>
>
> I think we would want a mailing list to discuss a possible new charter for
> EDIINT.
>
> We can revise the old mailing list if folks on this list feel that is a
> good idea:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ediint/about/
>
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/ediint/
>
> The process for activating this list is slightly different since it's from
> a closed WG, but I can easily sort that out.
>
> Do folks on the dispatch list think that is a good next step?
>
> I can get the list up, and help prepare a narrow charter for discussion on
> dispatch, ideally folks on the EDIINT list would do the heavy lifting for
> the proposed charter.
>
> Regards,
>
> OS, ART AD
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 22, 2025 at 1:30 PM Jim Fenton <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> No, another presentation isn’t needed. Assuming the recommendation of the
> Dispatch session is to recharter EDIINT, the main thing you need is a
> charter. I’m not good at charters, but perhaps Orie can recommend someone.
> You can put together a draft charter, but it probably needs discussion on
> some mailing list. When it looks reasonable, the ADs take the charter
> forward to IESG for approval and when approved (and chairs have been
> decided, etc.), the WG is created.
>
> -Jim
>
> On 22 May 2025, at 10:25, Debra Petta wrote:
>
> Thank you, Jim, for your quick response.  How do we go about rechartering
> the EDIINT working group?
>
> Do you need another presentation before that happens?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jim Fenton <[e-mail]>
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 22, 2025 12:18 PM
> *To:* Debra Petta <[e-mail]>
> *Cc:* [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: Request for Guidance on Advancing Updates to RFC 4130
>
>
>
> Hi Debra,
>
> Yes, I was in yesterday’s ARTAREA interim meeting.
>
> A little feedback on your presentation there. You spent quite a bit of
> time giving your background at the beginning of your presentation, and as a
> couple of people noted in the online chat, IETF participants are generally
> more interested in the technical content than in the background of the
> presenter.
>
> Please note that the purpose of the Dispatch session is to decide on the
> venue for a more detailed discussion of RFC4130bis, rather than to actually
> have that discussion. We will again have a very limited amount of time
> (10-15 minutes typically) during which we want you to present a very
> top-level overview of the work, focusing more on the nature of the work to
> be done rather than the details of the technology itself. We’re all
> technologists, so it takes some discipline not to delve into the details
> because that’s what we love to do!
>
> As stated on the IETF wiki for Dispatch
> <https://wiki.ietf.org/group/dispatch>, the focus is to make a
> recommendation about how best to accommodate the work. Possibilities
> include:
>
>    - New work item in currently chartered WG
>    - New WG
>    - Full BoF
>    - Individual/AD sponsored - for items limited in scope and
>    applicability
>    - Feedback to refine the idea for the next meeting cycle
>    - New work item in DISPATCH WG
>    - Declination to adopt the work at that time
>
> In this particular case, rechartering of the EDIINT working group would be
> a relevant option.
>
> Hope this helps. We will be providing a slide template in the next few
> weeks.
>
> -Jim
>
> On 22 May 2025, at 9:13, Debra Petta wrote:
>
> Hi Dispatch Chairs,
>
>
>
> I’m reaching out following a presentation I gave yesterday during the ART
> AD interim meeting, where I shared an overview of the need to update RFC
> 4130 to reflect newer cryptographic algorithms, best practices derived from
> extensive interoperability testing, support for new features, and
> automation of certificate management.
>
>
>
> While the discussion was brief and the feedback suggested a need for a
> more technically focused proposal, I’m eager to continue this effort in the
> appropriate IETF venue.
>
>
>
> I’m currently working with a group of AS2 vendors who recently completed a
> full AS2 interoperability test event and are actively engaged in discussing
> proposed changes. We’ve begun internal discussions via email, but we’d like
> to transition this to an open, IETF-sponsored mailing list to ensure
> transparency and broader community engagement. Reopening the EDIINT WG or
> establishing a relevant forum would lend credibility to the effort and
> encourage broader community input.
>
>
>
> If it would be useful, I’m happy to prepare a more technical proposal
> specifically for Dispatch review.
>
>
>
> Could you advise on the appropriate next steps for pursuing this work
> through the Dispatch process?
>
>
>
> Thank you in advance for your guidance.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
> Debra Petta
>
>
>
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>  *Debra Petta*
> Sr. Software Engineer <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Information Security and Interoperability
>  E  *[e-mail]*
>  W *drummondgroup.com* <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: Jim Fenton <[e-mail]> Sent: Monday, May 5, 2025 3:48
> PM To: Debra Petta <[e-mail]> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [dispatch] [Review Request] RFC 4130 Specification Update (AS2
> EDIINT) <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>*
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Debra, <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> We haven’t started scheduling topics for the dispatch session yet, but
> this looks appropriate. We will put this in the (currently very short)
> queue. <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> -Jim <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> On 2 May 2025, at 9:42, Debra Petta wrote: <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> I am currently working with a small group from the AS2 vendor community to
> make updates to RFC 4130 that include long-standing consensus behaviors and
> test-derived best practices with newer/modern cryptographic algorithms.
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Linked below is the existing draft with only changes to render it in
> markdown:  *https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-petta-rfc4130bis/*
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Would it be possible to have some at the next meeting dispatch session to
> discuss it and to determine our next steps?
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Thank you and Best Regards, <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Debra Petta <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>  *Debra Petta*
> Sr. Software Engineer <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
> Information Security and Interoperability
>  E  *[e-mail]*
>  W *drummondgroup.com* <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
>   <http://www.drummondgroup.com/>
>
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