Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> Sun, 14 June 2020 18:43 UTC
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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 14:42:59 -0400
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From: John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Cc: kboth@drkurt.com
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/gll_AD80SzysVJi9GDeKM12OslA>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC
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In article <CABuGu1oVA-4w49+-6u_hyCbpJV39xZH0gHHdug2d1SoPWQeaMA@mail.gmail.com> you write: >-=-=-=-=-=- >> > ARC lets the recipient look back and retroactively do the filtering >> > the list didn't. >> >> The concern about the creator of an ARC chain spoofing the purported >> origin of a message is valid. > >By "creator" do you mean "initiator" (aka, the source of the first ARC set, >i=1)? I think it't the other way around. Let's say you get a message with three ARC seals. For i=3 both the AMS and AS headers should validate, since the message came directly from the entity that put on that seal. For i=1 and i=2 the AS should validate but the AMS probably won't. The cv= tag in each AS header tells us whether the AMS was good when it arrived at that intermediary, so the i=1 and i=2 seals are only as good as the i=3 signer's reputation. I were a certain kind of bad guy, I would take the two seal ARC chain from a message from a virtuous sender, replace the message body and >From and Subject line with my spam, add a fresh new i=3 seal and blast it out. That ARC chain is 100% valid, even though the messsage is spam. That's why (as Kurt knows) you only pay attention to ARC seals from senders that are otherwise credible. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… devel2020
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can solve t… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Benny Pedersen
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Benny Pedersen
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… devel2020
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] why ARC John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… ned+dmarc
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Scott Kitterman
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Tim Wicinski
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Laura Atkins
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Todd Herr
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Kurt Andersen (b)
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Laura Atkins
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Todd Herr
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jim Fenton
- [dmarc-ietf] Mediation (was: Re: Header munging, … Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation (was: Re: Header mungi… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Todd Herr
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation (was: Re: Header mungi… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation (was: Re: Header mungi… Pete Resnick
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation (was: Re: Header mungi… Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Message-ID, was Mediation John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… John R Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation and controlled forward… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Dave Crocker
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation John Levine
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Alessandro Vesely
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… devel2020
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Hector Santos
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Brandon Long
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Mediation Jesse Thompson
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dotzero
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging: A solution propo… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging: A solution propo… Murray S. Kucherawy
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging: A solution propo… Douglas E. Foster
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… devel2020
- Re: [dmarc-ietf] Header munging, not ARC, can sol… Dotzero