Re: [dmarc-ietf] Lookup Limitations For Public Suffix Domains

"John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com> Sat, 01 December 2018 00:33 UTC

Return-Path: <johnl@iecc.com>
X-Original-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08111129A87 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:33:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=iecc.com header.b=hRU56lYn; dkim=pass (1536-bit key) header.d=taugh.com header.b=aal/o2jT
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ignLmuGeQIr3 for <dmarc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:33:03 -0800 (PST)
Received: from gal.iecc.com (gal.iecc.com [IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126:0:43:6f73:7461]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF133126F72 for <dmarc@ietf.org>; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 16:33:02 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 94510 invoked from network); 1 Dec 2018 00:33:01 -0000
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=iecc.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=17126.5c01d6bd.k1811; bh=l8XYEPWI4mJfu7lR0C02c3HiRzzzjDdg6KaZL9Vrpcs=; b=hRU56lYnKyGgLTPignfnarevfUTKDrS2bKr6pyhI2ENrbVUcn/jF2yQ+iX+LEHVFdxptB0SHSXnp1ppqADS2GPG/l/y0RWuMtE6nAzjY+Jg76Jq9zlb0P2zNPbNsswHe3JHWF3y+cEqtbbXL058WSoejnt6NY2ecGhadSGbEdmtAinb8FAeQaVP0BwmsOtgxM9V+bJkb9k+Bsp1EuSrK8Iz5wuUtQVESIuW2DOD/pMKMDjyZX3E8dDuatzF2sJMN
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=taugh.com; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=17126.5c01d6bd.k1811; bh=l8XYEPWI4mJfu7lR0C02c3HiRzzzjDdg6KaZL9Vrpcs=; b=aal/o2jToVoixFf+4xFIRRjVHDv86xuw9j+qWupMaF1278auEZDo2mMgpn8u9J0RRfLjGDaazBTjdkqjbO29J/HiEAjs0RZaDroXy1I9tiVe6JT5s0/wafyEFEpE/hy1QGm0KDn9Ll1DmNOJ88wcG5B6bxUIz74pff3kPQawXp3xoj2dVV0mKF1LkZ2cGubs0gSL0VLfYFRM8BpkcJMw7QQDxEEqUFi3h4HCKWpAKuE9q2dG91NdJXw0czief2Xx
Received: from ary.qy ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) by imap.iecc.com ([IPv6:2001:470:1f07:1126::78:696d:6170]) with ESMTP via TCP6; 01 Dec 2018 00:33:01 -0000
Received: by ary.qy (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1DFFA200915FC3; Fri, 30 Nov 2018 19:33:00 -0500 (EST)
Date: 30 Nov 2018 19:33:00 -0500
Message-Id: <20181201003301.1DFFA200915FC3@ary.qy>
From: "John Levine" <johnl@taugh.com>
To: dmarc@ietf.org
Cc: sklist@kitterman.com
In-Reply-To: <3881693.rR9BVk4Dlq@kitterma-e6430>
Organization: Taughannock Networks
X-Headerized: yes
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dmarc/olvUuneEeq0se_I5Uyzc6Eo9ZTE>
Subject: Re: [dmarc-ietf] Lookup Limitations For Public Suffix Domains
X-BeenThere: dmarc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting, and Compliance \(DMARC\)" <dmarc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dmarc/>
List-Post: <mailto:dmarc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmarc>, <mailto:dmarc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2018 00:33:05 -0000

In article <3881693.rR9BVk4Dlq@kitterma-e6430> you write:
>2.  Externalize signaling about PSD participation.  As discussed in the 
>Privacy Considerations (section 4.1), we were concerned about the privacy 
>implications of feedback on organizational domain traffic for organizational 
>domains that don't participate in DMARC being inappropriately captured by 
>public suffix operators.

It seems to me this horse left the barn a long time ago.  Mail systems
routinely check domains in HELO and in MAIL FROM against DNSBLs, which
is at least as loggy as anything a DNS version of this check will do.

Also, if you really want to keep people from logging your queries, you
can set up a local mirror of the DNS zone, and update it in the usual
way with AXFR and IXFR.  Whatever one might have in mind for a text
version of this, a binary AXFR would be about as fast and IXFR of just
the occasional change faster.

Take a look at my DBOUND proposal.  I think it would be just the
ticket for this application.

R's,
John