Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis.
"Zuniga, Juan Carlos" <JuanCarlos.Zuniga@InterDigital.com> Wed, 19 September 2012 20:55 UTC
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From: "Zuniga, Juan Carlos" <JuanCarlos.Zuniga@InterDigital.com>
To: Peter McCann <Peter.McCann@huawei.com>, pierrick.seite@orange.com, karagian@cs.utwente.nl, jouni.nospam@gmail.com, dmm@ietf.org, h chan <h.anthony.chan@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis.
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Good point Pete, although I'm not sure the title can fit... We'll look for an alternative to reflect the actual content. Thanks, Juan Carlos > -----Original Message----- > From: Peter McCann [mailto:Peter.McCann@huawei.com] > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 3:54 PM > To: Zuniga, Juan Carlos; pierrick.seite@orange.com; > karagian@cs.utwente.nl; jouni.nospam@gmail.com; dmm@ietf.org; h chan > Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org > Subject: RE: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. > > Maybe the document should be entitled "Existing IP Mobility Practices > and DMM Gap Analysis." I am not sure there are any "DMM Practices" > currently. > > -Pete > > Zuniga, Juan Carlos wrote: > > Hi Pierrick, all, > > > > The document title is "DMM Practices and Gap Analysis", and the > > intention is to address both. When we presented at the meeting it I > > made it clear that we wanted to show our approach to the problem, > > which was first to agree on what are the "current practices" that we > > want to consider, and then provide a "gap analysis" wrt the DMM > > requirements document. > > > > We are currently working on a new version of the document taking into > > account the feedback we got at the meeting and on the ML. We will > > provide more details about the current practices and will take a stab > > at the gap analysis for discussion. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Juan Carlos > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: pierrick.seite@orange.com [mailto:pierrick.seite@orange.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 9:03 AM > >> To: 'karagian@cs.utwente.nl'; jouni.nospam@gmail.com; dmm@ietf.org; > >> h.anthony.chan@huawei.com; Zuniga, Juan Carlos > >> Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org > >> Subject: RE: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. > >> > >> Hi Jouni and Julien, > >> > >> > >> Sorry for jumping into the discussion but I'm a little bit confused > >> with recent discussions in DMM. So, let me ask for clarifications > >> about the scope of the gap analysis... > >> > >> The WG is now tackling with the work item 'Practices and Gap > Analysis' > >> and, in my understanding, we are expected to provide a gap analysis > >> regarding the use of mobility protocols in a distributed mobility > >> management environment. However, it seems that the scope of > discussions > >> on gap analysis is different.... and I'm confused :-) > >> > >> Actually, in the charter, we agreed to firstly "document practices > for > >> the deployment of existing mobility protocols in a distributed > mobility > >> management environment" and, then, to make the gap analysis. > However, > >> considering current discussions on "gap analysis": the document on > >> practices has been omitted and discussions are about vanilla > mobility > >> protocols and architectures with respect to DMM requirements. So, > >> maybe, such considerations are interesting in the scope of the > problem > >> statement, but it seems to me that it is not the goal of the gap > >> analysis, as initially intended in the charter. Am I missing > something? > >> > >> If I refer to previous DMM charter (because current DMM charter is > >> empty... BTW, is there a reason for an empty charter?), one Work > >> item > >> was: "Document practices for the deployment of existing mobility > >> protocols in a distributed mobility management environment". Is > >> this document still in DMM stuff? If yes, shouldn't we document > >> practices before going into the gap analysis? > >> > >> BR, > >> Pierrick > >> > >>> -----Message d'origine----- De : dmm-bounces@ietf.org > >>> [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de karagian@cs.utwente.nl > >>> Envoyé : mercredi 19 septembre 2012 13:11 À : > jouni.nospam@gmail.com; > >>> dmm@ietf.org; h.anthony.chan@huawei.com; > >>> JuanCarlos.Zuniga@interdigital.com Cc : dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org > >>> Objet : Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. > >>> > >>> Hi Jouni, Hi all, > >>> > >>> After discussing this issue with Carlos Jesús Bernardos and Juan > >>> Carlos Zuniga, we concluded that the following set of possible > >>> technologies could be included in the Gap analysis draft: > >>> > >>> => Shim6: Level 3 Multihoming Shim Protocol for IPv6 > http://www.rfc- > >>> editor.org/rfc/rfc5533.txt > >>> > >>> > >>> => LISP Mobile Node > >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-meyer-lisp-mn-07.txt > >>> Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP) > >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-lisp-23.txt > >>> > >>> => Mobile IPv6 Fast Handovers > >>> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-mipshop-rfc5268bis-01.txt This > is > >>> the draft that became then RFC5568, so no need to mention it. > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5568.txt > >>> > >>> > >>> => Fast Handovers for Proxy Mobile IPv6 > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5949.txt > >>> > >>> => Host Identity Protocol > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4423.txt > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5201.txt > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc6253.txt > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5206.txt > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> => IKEv2 Mobility and Multihoming Protocol (MOBIKE) > >>> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4555.txt > >>> > >>> > >>> => GTPv2-C: 3rd Generation Partnership Project; Technical > >>> Specification Group Core Network and Terminals; 3GPP Evolved Packet > >>> System (EPS); Evolved General Packet Radio Service (GPRS) > Tunnelling > >>> Protocol for Control plane (GTPv2-C); Stage 3 (Release 11) > >>> http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/29_series/29.274/29274- > b30.zip > >>> > >>> Please inform us if this list makes sense to you? > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Georgios > >>> > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: dmm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:dmm-bounces@ietf.org] On > > Behalf > >> Of > >>>> jouni korhonen > >>>> Sent: woensdag 19 september 2012 9:58 > >>>> To: dmm@ietf.org; h chan; Juan Carlos Zuniga > >>>> Cc: dmm-chairs@tools.ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Folks, > >>>> > >>>> It has been rather silent on the list recently. Regarding the > >>>> "explosion" of possible technologies in the GAP analysis, we > >>>> discussed (chairs) > >> that > >>> it is > >>>> better to scope the area "a bit". The charter today has the > >>>> assumption that we build on top of existing _IP_ _Mobility_ > protocols > >>>> (and bunch of IETF defined examples follow). So, to tighten the > >>>> scope, the Gap > >> Analysis > >>> should > >>>> leave all routing, session (SIP, ..), transport (MPTCP, SCTP, > >> DCCP, > >>> ..), > >>>> locator/identifier split (HIP, Lisp, ..), naming (DNS tricks, > >>>> ..) > >> etc > >>> based > >>>> solutions out. Coarse but should help us to make progress. We > could > >>>> discuss whether transport layer solution like SCTP fit in but I do > not > > see > >>> them as end- > >>>> 2-end solutions being deployable in Internet at the moment. > >>>> > >>>> Let us stick with technologies out there that have/had a place > > in > >>> sun: few > >>>> MIP variants, MOBIKE, stuff in 3GPP(2) (oops.. but I think this > >>>> deserves to be evaluated since they are somewhat popular), and > what > >>>> applications do (reconnecting..). This analysis should be down to > >>>> earth practical > >> and > >>> realistic > >>>> on what is already out there to play with. > >>>> > >>>> - Jouni & Julien > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Jul 27, 2012, at 3:53 PM, Jong-Hyouk Lee wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Dear Anthony and Juan. > >>>>> > >>>>> I enjoyed the both gap analysis documents (draft-chan-dmm- > >>> framework- > >>>> gap-analysis-02 and draft-zuniga-dmm-gap-analysis-01). Here I > > give > >>> some > >>>> comments that should be used directly in the gap analysis > documents > >>>> if you guys like. > >>>>> > >>>>> Kindly consider the followings during the gap analysis > >>>>> discussion > >>> (since I will > >>>> not be attending the IETF meeting this time). > >>>>> > >>>>> 1. Comment on address (resource) management in a DMM environment. > 2. > >>>>> Comment on a deployment of a client-based mobility solution > >>> (i.e., > >>>> MIPv6) in a DMM environment. > >>>>> 3. Commnet on neighbor mobility anchors' information in a DMM > >>>>> environment. 4. Commnet on an establishment of security > associations > >>>>> in a > > DMM > >>>> environment. > >>>>> > >>>>> === 1. Comment on address (resource) management in a DMM > >>>>> environment. === When existing IP mobility support protocols > (e.g., > >>>>> MIPv6 > > and > >>> PMIPv6) > >>>> are considered to be deployed in a DMM environment, a mobile node > >>>> (MN) is allowed to configure a new address while keeping its > previous > >>>> address(es). It introduces the following differences with the > address > >>>> (resource) management of the existing ones: > >>>>> > >>>>> MN's address configured at the interface with a DMM > > environment: > >> n > >>> = > >>>>> (IP address at the current access network + previously configured > IP > >>>>> address(es) with ongoing sessions) MN's address configured at the > >>>>> interface without a DMM environment: 1 = (care-of address > > in > >> MIPv6 > >>> or > >>>>> MN's home address in PMIPv6) > >>>>> > >>>>> This leads a couple of considerations we didn't have with the > >>>>> existing IP mobility support protocols. For instance, > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) MN's address management: use of a newly configured address > > at > >>> the > >>>> current access network for new communication sessions while a > proper > >>>> address selection for previously established ongoing communication > >>>> sessions. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) Additional treatment for ingress filtering: Ingress > > filtering > >> is > >>> widely used > >>>> against source address spoofing. The source addresses > > (especially, > >>> the > >>>> network prefix part) of incoming packets are strictly checked to > >> make > >>> sure > >>>> that those packets are actually from the network that they claim > to > >>>> be from. As the MN are allowed to send data packets with the > >>>> previously configured address(es) at the new access network, those > >>>> data packets would > > be > >>> filtered > >>>> at the ingress filtering place because the source address of > > those > >>> data > >>>> packets is not belonging to the new access network. Accordingly, > >>>> an additional treatment for ingress filtering is required. > >>>>> > >>>>> 3) MN's address increase at the MN's interface: Recall the > >>>>> number > >>> of MN's > >>>> address configured at an interface is n. Then, n is increased, > >>>> as > >> the > >>> MN > >>>> changes its point of attachment while keeping its ongoing > >>>> communication sessions. It brings the question: "How many > addresses > >>>> are currently possible to be configured at an interface?" > >>>>> > >>>>> 4) Routing entry increase at the serving mobility anchor: Let > >>>>> the > >>> serving > >>>> mobility anchor is the mobility anchor serves the MN. Traffic > >>>> associated to the MN travels via the serving mobility anchor. The > >>>> increase of the addresses associated to the MN, n, is not only > >>>> concerning to the MN, but also concerning the serving mobility > anchor > >>>> as it contributes the > >> increase > >>> of > >>>> routing entries for the MN. > >>>>> > >>>>> === 2. Comment on a deployment of a client-based mobility > solution > >>>>> (i.e., MIPv6) in a DMM environment. === When a client-based > >>> mobility > >>>> solution (i.e., MIPv6) is consiered to be deployed in a DMM > >>>> environment, an MN is involved in mobility signaling such as > Binding > >>>> Update and Acknowledgement messages. This is the big difference > with > >>>> the network- based mobility solution (i.e., PMIPv6). As the MN > send > >>>> signaling to inform its movement to its mobility anchor, the > >>>> client-based mobility solution allows the MN to supply client- > centric > >>>> decision for mobility management. > >>>>> > >>>>> Suppose that the origin mobility anchor is the mobility anchor > >>> where the > >>>> MN has configured its IP address and established ongoing > >>>> communication sessions with the IP address. The number of origin > >>>> mobility anchors are n - 1. Recall that the serving mobility > anchor > >>>> is the mobility anchor > >> where > >>> the MN is > >>>> being served by. Then, the MN's involvement in mobility signaling > >>>> brings us the questions: "Should we let the MN send mobilty > signaling > >>>> to > > its > >>> all mobility > >>>> anchors?" or "Would it make sense that the MN only sends mobility > >>>> signaling to its serving mobility anchor?" Depending on the > choice, > >>>> we will have different results: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) "MN sends mobility signaling to its all mobility anchors" > causes: > >>>>> 1.1 increased mobility signaling load, e.g., signaling * (n - 1). > >>>>> 1.2 bidirectional tunnels are established between the MN and > > its > >>> mobility > >>>> anchors. > >>>>> 1.3 tunneling overhead over the air is present. > >>>>> 1.4 but the tunnels are terminated at the MN so that the MN > >>>>> has > >>> control > >>>> over the tunnels. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) "MN sends mobility signaling only to its serving mobility > anchor" > >>>>> causes: 2.1 reduced mobility signaling load, e.g., signaling * 1. > >>>>> 2.2 bidirectional tunnels are established between the serving > >>> mobility > >>>> anchors and origin mobility anchors. > >>>>> 2.3 tunneling overhead over the air can be avoided. > >>>>> 2.4 but the MN does not have control over the tunnels so it > >>>>> might > >>> affect to > >>>> NEtwork MObility (NEMO) as the MN (i.e., MR in NEMO) loses the > >>>> tunneling control. > >>>>> > >>>>> === 3. Neighbor mobility anchors' information in a DMM > environment. > >>>>> === In the client-based mobility solution such as MIPv6, the > >>> network > >>>> topology information does not required to be known to the > > mobility > >>> anchor, > >>>> i.e., home agent (HA), since the HA is informed the current > >> location > >>> of the > >>>> MN. As the HA knows the current location of the MN, it is able to > >>>> tunnel packets associated to the MN. In the network-based mobility > >> solution > >>> such > >>>> as PMIPv6, the similar things happen, i.e., the tunnel between > > the > >>> local > >>>> mobility anchor (LMA) and the mobile access gateway (MAG) is > >>>> established for a given MN. > >>>>> > >>>>> However, as mobility anchors are distributed and bidirectional > >>> tunnels (for > >>>> a given MN) between the distributed mobility anchors are > > required, > >>> the > >>>> neighbor mobility anchors' information should be provided to the > MN > >>>> or the mobility anchor for the establishment of the directional > >>>> tunnels or the update of the MN's current location. > >>>>> > >>>>> Decoupling the data plane and control plane while keeping a > >>> centralized > >>>> node maintaining the mobility context including neighbor mobility > >>>> anchors' information (e.g., identification, IP address, etc) in a > DMM > >>>> environment is one of possible solutions. > >>>>> > >>>>> === 4. Comment on an establishment of security associations in > > a > >>> DMM > >>>>> environment. === For each IP mobility support protocol, > >>>>> different > >>> security > >>>> associations (SAs) are required for providing secure mobility > >>>> services to MNs as follows: > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) MIPv6 > >>>>> 1.1 SA between MN and HA. > >>>>> 1.2 SA between MN and serving access router (AR) providing > >> wireless > >>> link > >>>> to the MN. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) Fast Handover MIPv6 (FMIPv6) > >>>>> 2.1 SA between MN and HA. > >>>>> 2.2 SA between MN and serving AR. > >>>>> 2.3 SA between previous and new ARs. > >>>>> > >>>>> 3) PMIPv6 > >>>>> 3.1 SA between MN and serving MAG. > >>>>> 3.2 SA between serving MAG and LMA. > >>>>> > >>>>> 4) Fast Handover PMIPv6 (FPMIPv6) > >>>>> 4.1 SA between MN and serving MAG. > >>>>> 4.2 SA between serving MAG and LMA. > >>>>> 4.3 SA between previous and new MAGs. > >>>>> > >>>>> Note that the above ones do not consider the cases of SA with > >>>>> a > >>> security- > >>>> backend server (e.g., AAA server) and with a correspondent node > >> (CN). > >>>>> > >>>>> However, depending on DMM solutions, SAs are configured that are > >>>>> different from those of the existing IP mobility support > protocols. > >>>>> For instance, > >>>>> > >>>>> 1) the case of "MN sends mobility signaling to its all > >>>>> mobility anchors" (client-based mobility solution) > >>>>> 1.1 SA between MN and serving mobility anchor providing > > wireless > >>> link to > >>>> the MN. > >>>>> 1.2 SA between MN and origin mobility anchors, i.e., (n - 1) > > SAs > >>> required > >>>> with MN and origin mobility anchors. > >>>>> > >>>>> 2) the case of "MN sends mobility signaling only to its > >>>>> serving mobility anchor" (client-based mobility solution) > >>>>> 2.1 SA between MN and serving mobility anchor. > >>>>> 2.2 SA between serving mobility anchor and origin mobility > >> anchors, > >>> i.e., (n > >>>> - 1) SAs required with serving mobility anchor and origin > > mobility > >>> anchors. > >>>>> > >>>>> 3) the case of "serving mobility anchor sends signaling on behalf > of > >>>>> the MN to origin mobility anchors" (network-based mobility > solution) > >>>>> 3.1 SA between MN and serving mobility anchor. 3.2 SA between > >>>>> serving mobility anchor and origin mobility > >> anchors, > >>> i.e., (n > >>>> - 1) SAs required with serving mobility anchor and origin > > mobility > >>> anchors. > >>>>> > >>>>> Note that as like before SAs with a security-backend server > >> (e.g., > >>> AAA > >>>> server) and with a CN are not presented. > >>>>> > >>>>> As shown above, DMM solutions (that relies on bidirectional > >>> tunnelings for > >>>> packet forwarding between MN and mobility anchors or between > >>>> just mobility anchors) might bring the key management issues to > >> establish > >>> such > >>>> SAs. > >>>>> > >>>>> Since it's a holiday season, I cannot fully address all of > >>>>> them > >> in > >>> my mind, but > >>>> kindly consider these ones. > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> RSM Department, TELECOM Bretagne, France Jong-Hyouk Lee, > >>>>> living somewhere between /dev/null and /dev/random > >>>>> > >>>>> #email: jonghyouk (at) gmail (dot) com > >>>>> #webpage: http://sites.google.com/site/hurryon/ > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> dmm mailing list > >>>>> dmm@ietf.org > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> dmm mailing list > >>>> dmm@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> dmm mailing list > >>> dmm@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dmm > >> > >> > >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > >> _ __________________________________________________ > >> > >> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > >> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre > >> diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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- [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Jong-Hyouk Lee
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. jouni korhonen
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. karagian
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. pierrick.seite
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Zuniga, Juan Carlos
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Peter McCann
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Zuniga, Juan Carlos
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. liu dapeng
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. pierrick.seite
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Jouni Korhonen
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. pierrick.seite
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. karagian
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. jouni korhonen
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Konstantinos Pentikousis
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. pierrick.seite
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Marco Liebsch
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. pierrick.seite
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Wesley Eddy
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Wesley Eddy
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. jouni korhonen
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Charles E. Perkins
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Wesley Eddy
- Re: [DMM] Comments on DMM Gap Analysis. Behcet Sarikaya