Re: [dns-privacy] Issues with encoding keys in nameserver DNS names

Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> Mon, 17 December 2018 12:36 UTC

Return-Path: <dot@dotat.at>
X-Original-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9259E128D68 for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:36:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -4.2
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cktX0mrys3_R for <dns-privacy@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:36:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A928F1286E7 for <dns-privacy@ietf.org>; Mon, 17 Dec 2018 04:36:48 -0800 (PST)
X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found
X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://help.uis.cam.ac.uk/email-scanner-virus
Received: from grey.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.57.57]:44464) by ppsw-33.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.139]:25) with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) id 1gYs8a-000To3-hO (Exim 4.91) (return-path <dot@dotat.at>); Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:36:44 +0000
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:36:44 +0000
From: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
To: Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
cc: "A. Schulze" <sca@andreasschulze.de>, dns-privacy@ietf.org
In-Reply-To: <877egb3fu7.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
Message-ID: <alpine.DEB.2.20.1812171229280.2487@grey.csi.cam.ac.uk>
References: <20181211053806.GB11647@jurassic.lan.banu.com> <f11b7502-4ba0-ebd4-eaae-f12eca788297@andreasschulze.de> <877egb3fu7.fsf@fifthhorseman.net>
User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dns-privacy/Cy-XbgYoAOK_bfybo32zgP4o4HQ>
Subject: Re: [dns-privacy] Issues with encoding keys in nameserver DNS names
X-BeenThere: dns-privacy@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: <dns-privacy.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/dns-privacy/>
List-Post: <mailto:dns-privacy@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dns-privacy>, <mailto:dns-privacy-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 12:36:51 -0000

Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net> wrote:
> On Fri 2018-12-14 19:12:41 +0100, A. Schulze wrote:
> >
> > 5. Encoding a key as DNS name of a nameserver makes key rotation harder.
> >    Not impossible, but really much harder.
>
> i agree that it makes it harder, but i'm not convinced that it is *much*
> harder.

In my setup, if server keys are in the server name then rotating them
requires liaison work over email to humans at 8 other organizations.
(And my setup is not big.)

If server keys are alongside then it's easy.

> But maybe it's worth reviewing what we're hoping to gain from the
> keys-in-names approach too:
>
>  a) indication that private queries are expected to work to this
>     particular resolver
>
>  b) cryptographic identity material
>
> But what if we cared only about (a) ?  could we signal with a
> special/magic terminal label just that private queries are expected to
> work, without embedding a key there?

That could be a useful approach.

Tony.
-- 
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot@dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
Lundy, Fastnet, Irish Sea: South 6 to gale 8, increasing severe gale 9 at
times, perhaps storm 10 later. Moderate at first in Irish Sea, otherwise rough
or very rough, occasionally high except in Irish Sea. Occasional rain. Good,
occasionally poor.