Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt
bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com Wed, 05 October 2011 15:43 UTC
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Date: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 15:44:41 +0000
From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
To: David Conrad <drc@virtualized.org>
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References: <20111004143947.205a61dff9fc1684c258b274662bb912.04bcda2f2f.wbe@email00.secureserver.net> <CAH1iCir9T0kSL=_-f_FW1jcfN3D+z5tHc18ML0L9h5Znm45vZw@mail.gmail.com> <24EEC86B-DE62-477E-8E77-1A8683803667@virtualized.org>
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Cc: DNSEXT Working Group <dnsext@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt
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On Wed, Oct 05, 2011 at 07:25:39AM -0700, David Conrad wrote: > On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Brian Dickson wrote: > > This proposal is a very lightweight and elegant (IMHO) counter-counter-measure. > > Not really. It is a hack that, if implemented, will ensure there is no pressure to actually fix broken infrastructures. Realistically: > > - states-sponsored censorship will continue to occur: states have a tendency to insist on that sort of thing, with guns if necessary; > - folks intentionally blocking working DNS to force the use of their name servers will figure out a way to continue blocking DNS: I have sufficient faith in the tenacity of such folks that all this will do is result in a cat-and-mouse game (e.g., it won't be that hard to figure out which HTTP{,S} server IP addresses to blacklist); > - middlebox vendors and lazy DNS operators won't need to fix their DNS implementations because there is now a HTTP{,S} bypass for the folks that whine about such things; and > - we now have to saddle DNSSEC server implementations (auth and recursive) with yet more complexity. Permanently. complexity is a serious problem for maintaining a secure and auditable system. there is no clear, crisp engineering reason to persue this tactic... it is, as stated, a counter-counter measure... looks like an arms race to me, not useful engineering. > This feels like the wrong way to solve this problem. amen. (sorry - too religious - +1) /bill > > Regards, > -drc > > _______________________________________________ > dnsext mailing list > dnsext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsext
- [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Ted Hardie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Wilmer van der Gaast
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Wilmer van der Gaast
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Aki Tuomi
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Olaf Kolkman
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Ted Hardie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Robert Edmonds
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Wessels, Duane
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Jakob Schlyter
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Patrik Fältström
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Colm MacCárthaigh
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Wouters
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Alex Bligh
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt David Conrad
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Nicholas Weaver
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Wessels, Duane
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Hoffman
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Ted Hardie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Wessels, Duane
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Alex Bligh
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Ted Hardie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Alex Bligh
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Måns Nilsson
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Tony Finch
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Michael Sheldon
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Paul Vixie
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Ray Bellis
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Brian Dickson
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Michael Sheldon
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt Masataka Ohta
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt David Conrad
- Re: [dnsext] draft-mohan-dns-query-xml-00.txt bmanning
- [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis-upd… Edward Lewis
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Samuel Weiler
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Olafur Gudmundsson
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Mohan Parthasarathy
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Samuel Weiler
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Mark Andrews
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… W.C.A. Wijngaards
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Edward Lewis
- Re: [dnsext] Related to section 5.1 of dnssec-bis… Mark Andrews