Re: [DNSOP] draft-wkumari-dnsop-alt-tld-04

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Thu, 12 February 2015 22:43 UTC

Return-Path: <ggm@algebras.org>
X-Original-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7EF1A19E5 for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:53 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.978
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBg98QK7f3kd for <dnsop@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-pa0-f44.google.com (mail-pa0-f44.google.com [209.85.220.44]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C51A1A1A0B for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:50 -0800 (PST)
Received: by mail-pa0-f44.google.com with SMTP id kq14so14430686pab.3 for <dnsop@ietf.org>; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dEaGuSmTlciOez/XhSfRN4wgVyLvASJJMHX2xCTnrfM=; b=YVW8N9WU/BL9ZKUWZvXnIyYVdApC8B/M2gVhQl1jQtKskslzYRJTX8U9RwY1B29k9D aPFiiYnEMAfroH2PMuiAVTGSOOitcn5UKGl99T2fdPkxmuMwxQ9AubGyVTS2VH+N42dw FPfaQOX3jtQULVGrELxBgcclz/Qkp2wAncNhlBE5UXgI1gX4QkrzdWsGPhm8Xiz8CORq 5t4Pe3b7mbgo9mmxLt3HXGR1+mJwgnEz5kbsVtzvyLuufVRQGrZ8N+IlSW0sOH138phg 0i8SfB2egbEvBHtp1cd20wGtXqVJ06nscaBSnRmG+9liNM2HZjaqii+5w1FEfOk5ua09 qSLQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmq9hZeh2b4R6Q7ZmIifc8yBmjG+jY7vYFVHzkiKtiycN7IWgzPBMVxXf466D2ZKjNfL7og
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.68.65.110 with SMTP id w14mr10126470pbs.57.1423781029921; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.70.67.226 with HTTP; Thu, 12 Feb 2015 14:43:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Originating-IP: [2001:dc0:a000:4:e941:b9e7:c7b8:2f24]
In-Reply-To: <5E0556E9-F579-42CB-9A20-FC1B2F382D3B@nominum.com>
References: <20150212063638.GD6950@mx1.yitter.info> <CAKr6gn302PSFdqVwH2m=drEZ02_kw+3ioQ4Wz++LnVyK6Z_PDA@mail.gmail.com> <5E0556E9-F579-42CB-9A20-FC1B2F382D3B@nominum.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:43:49 +1000
Message-ID: <CAKr6gn3HRM2wxB6c2qE9auMiig-9knHFiThYfMCxB5uOGUx06A@mail.gmail.com>
From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
To: Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113813fe86e27d050eebda39"
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dnsop/7IkAgl8wRa6hDYH3ewNMoKUG-JE>
Cc: dnsop WG <dnsop@ietf.org>, Andrew Sullivan <ajs@anvilwalrusden.com>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] draft-wkumari-dnsop-alt-tld-04
X-BeenThere: dnsop@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: IETF DNSOP WG mailing list <dnsop.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dnsop/>
List-Post: <mailto:dnsop@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop>, <mailto:dnsop-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 22:43:53 -0000

I had imagined, in that simpler time, that users never saw alt, but
imported other-name-space calls mapping into gethostbyname() acquired .alt
unless an override was present. Ie, it was a more formal label of inclusion
of a non-DNS namespace so the alt label was in-system, not visible in the
other namespace.

This is how I recall the mapping from the pre-USENET news systems like the
one Jacob Palme ran, on Dec-10s was intruded into usenet news: his stuff
had a qualified form which was legal in-system in usenet, but was acquiring
a magic label on entry from the Dec-10 world. Lots of sendmail.cf files did
transforms which added/removed/appended/re-ordered mail addys to get magic
tokens in and out.

-G

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Ted Lemon <Ted.Lemon@nominum.com> wrote:

> On Feb 12, 2015, at 1:44 AM, George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> wrote:
> > Technology wise, this is short, and simple and clear. Would we had this
> before .onion eventuated, and dare I say it even .local from another time
> and place. WIring a TLD to be used for alternate namespaces so that we can
> safely anchor non-DNS names into the DNS and avoid repetitious stupidity is
> a good plan.
>
> I think that if .alt had existed when .local was defined, nothing would
> have been different. From a UI perspective, using an extra label to
> identify that a particular domain is special-use is worse, because it's
> more typing, and doesn't really make sense--which makes more sense:
> "myhost.local" or "myhost.local.alt"?
>
> So I think this work is worth doing, because there are probably cases
> where .alt will do just fine, but I don't think it gets rid of the problem
> of top-level special-use domains.  The "SHOULD" recommendation in the
> document is the right level of applicability: "MUST" would be wrong, and I
> appreciate that the authors did not use it.
>
>