Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt

[Ben Schwartz <[e-mail]>]

Thanks!  I think this is an improvement.  Ideally this would use an existing schema language instead of inventing a new one, but your approach here seems reasonable.

I think the draft should probably add Mnemonic and Data Type columns to the EDNS OPT registry, to make sure that future opcodes are representable.

Nits:

Looking at dig output, I see that the built-in fields are represented in a manner that is clearly distinct from the option-codes:

; EDNS: version: 0, flags: do; udp: 1232
; OPT=15: 00 14 ("..")

I think you could accomplish a similar effect (and reduce divergence from dig) by changing "Version", "FLAGS", "RCODE" and "UDPSIZE" to lower-case.

The LLQ option seems like it would benefit from an "object" type instead of "list".

Section 13 (on escaping) highlights what a mess we have with weird characters in DNS names and zone files.  This was a big pain in SVCB with character-strings and comma-separated lists, and continues to be a big pain in other drafts (e.g. [1]).  I think we might want to invest some time in a proper standard for ASCII representation of DNS names.

--Ben

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-alias-proxy-status-05#section-2.1

________________________________
From: DNSOP <[e-mail]> on behalf of libor.peltan <libor.peltan=[e-mail]>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2023 11:15 AM
To: Ben Schwartz <bemasc=[e-mail]>; libor.peltan <libor.peltan=[e-mail]>; Tom Carpay <[e-mail]>; dnsop <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt

Hi Ben, DNSOP, thank you so much for your reading and comments. We considered both of your suggestions useful, and substantially updated the document to reflect them: - for each EDNS option, abstract name, type and value are defined, and both
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Hi Ben, DNSOP,


thank you so much for your reading and comments. We considered both of your suggestions useful, and substantially updated the document to reflect them:

 - for each EDNS option, abstract name, type and value are defined, and both presentation and JSON formats are derived from those, leading to mutual unification

 - the presentation format is as similar as arguably possible to current dig/kdig text output


The new version of the draft can be seen here: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-02.html<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-02.html>


We also already have a piece of "running code": kdig 3.3.2 implements both JSON and presentation format in accordance to the draft.


We think this might be of interest of DNSOP.


Thanks,


Libor


Dne 29. 08. 23 v 19:01 Ben Schwartz napsal(a):
I have reviewed this draft.  It seems potentially useful and like a reasonable attempt to define a solution.

I would like to see a unified rule connecting the text and JSON representations, rather than explicitly defining new formats for each key (and in some cases even changing the key names, e.g. NSID vs. NSIDHEX).  For example, some options could be defined as having "list" type output, and then we could define generically how list values are represented in JSON and text.  Similarly for numbers, strings, etc.  Alternatively, the JSON format could be defined first, and the text format could be defined via an algorithm that acts generically on the JSON values.

I think it's worth taking a close look at the existing commonly used presentation formats before defining a new one.  For example, it might be worthwhile to standardize a text representation that is closer to the current "dig" output, for the sake of compatibility with existing systems.

--Ben Schwartz
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From: DNSOP <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]> on behalf of libor.peltan <libor.peltan=[e-mail]><mailto:libor.peltan=[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2023 4:33 AM
To: dnsop <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>
Subject: [DNSOP] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt

Hi dsnop, we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft https: //www. ietf. org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01. html We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, and help interoperability of DNS
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Hi dsnop,

we'd like to turn your attention again to our draft https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.html<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.html>

We believe this document shall fill a missing gap in specifications, and help interoperability of DNS tools. Therefore, we think it'd make sense if this document once becomes a dnsop-homed RFC.

We'd appreciate your feedback and comments.

Update from -00: added Guidelines for Future EDNS(0) Options (thanks to Pieter Lexis); nitpicks.

Thank you!

Libor and Tom


-------- Přeposlaná zpráva --------
Předmět:        New Version Notification for draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
Datum:  Wed, 31 May 2023 01:30:33 -0700
Od:     [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Komu:   Libor Peltan <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>, Tom Carpay <[e-mail]><mailto:[e-mail]>



A new version of I-D, draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Libor Peltan and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format
Revision: 01
Title: EDNS Presentation and JSON Format
Document date: 2023-05-31
Group: Individual Submission
Pages: 20
URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt<https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01.txt>
Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format/<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format/>
Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format>
Diff: https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01<https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-peltan-edns-presentation-format-01>

Abstract:
This document describes textual and JSON representation format of
EDNS option. It also modifies the escaping rules of JSON
representation of DNS messages, previously defined in RFC8427.



The IETF Secretariat





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