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Re: [dnsoverhttp] You've got DNS in my HTTP! No, you've got HTTP in my DNS!!!!

George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org> Wed, 23 November 2016 04:56 UTC

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From: George Michaelson <ggm@algebras.org>
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2016 14:56:15 +1000
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To: Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org>
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Subject: Re: [dnsoverhttp] You've got DNS in my HTTP! No, you've got HTTP in my DNS!!!!
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from a network layer (IP) view, things above converging is not
surprising. its when they push in the IP header you start to worry.

So from a community which thought it had a thin model against OSI,
finding that things which layer above transport (UDP, TCP) are now
converging on shared behaviours, doesn't feel surprising.

HTTP as a transport for DNS as an application, its inevitable you're
going to see these convergences as people move where they want to do
privacy, do security, do capabilities across from their application
context, to the transport context.

and as we reinvent sessions, session layer properties emerge. thats
what mpTCP and DNS over long-held-TCP and QUIC are doing: re-asserting
state above variant transport and IP bindings

so no, I don't think this is surprising, or unexpected, or unusual.



On Wed, Nov 23, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org> wrote:
> All,
>
> One thing that really stuck with me at the dnsoverhttp bar-BoF was when
> someone said that DNS is adopting features that look like HTTP
> (DNS sessions handling, DNS RR server-side push, etc.), and that HTTP
> is adopting features that look like DNS (sending certificate chains,
> providing address information, etc.).
>
> I wonder if our models are starting to break down? Having two protocols
> with seemingly very little in common adopting the same features kind of
> implies that our abstractions are broken, right?
>
> I can see a number of ways to approach this situation. We can muddle on
> and end up duplicating functionality ad-hoc (not necessarily bad), we
> can consider a new thingy that encompasses shared needs, we can push
> each function to one part of the stack or the other. I don't know.
>
> I don't have any proposals, just something that's been in my head. :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Shane
>
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